Our Allies... the Germans

[Velociryx]

SO?!

Dude, Germany and France are the ones lamenting that we "don't really know" if they exist or not, and without proof, we should not act. Then we find out that they DO know, and in fact, regard it as enough of a threat to bulk up on vaccine.

Not exactly rocket science to see the writing on the wall.

-=Vel=-

[DinoDoc]

"Germany knew all along that such weapons existed" - Yes, I think so.

So?

I think Vel's point is that Germany should be more honest about its oposition toward the war and cease calling for a smoking gun if this is the case.

[HershOstropoler]

"They we find out that they DO know, and in fact, regard it as enough of a threat to bulk up on vaccine."

I think they have known this for long. As for specific smallpox scare, there can be many explanations. No need for sudden definite proof there.

"I think Vel's point is that Germany should be more honest about its oposition toward the war and cease calling for a smoking gun if this is the case."

Uh, we're talking politics here...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Uh, we're talking politics here...

Of course. However, I think that there are better arguements to be made against the Iraq war in this case rather than calling for a "smoking gun."

[DuncanK]

All this about a smoking gun was just rhetoric anyway. Everyone knows he's got WoD. This is not really a big deal. The only thing this means is that Germany looks slightly stupider than France does.

[Ming]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Uh, we're talking politics here...

That's kind of the whole point of this thread.

When Bush does ANYTHING, the Euro's bash him by calling him stupid or saying it's politics.

When a Euro plays politics, there is nothing wrong with it...

[HershOstropoler]

Sure. And there are better arguments to be made for an Iraq war than eg claiming Al Qaeda links you cannot prove.

But it's politics. I don't understand why you would identify the view of individual europeans with the arguments presented and motives held by their governments.

[HershOstropoler]

Ming, you're suffering from a perception problem.

"When Bush does ANYTHING, the Euro's bash him by calling him stupid or saying it's politics."

Of course.

"When a Euro plays politics, there is nothing wrong with it..."

No, it's the same thing. You'll just hardly find a European that defends his politicians, so it's not an issue. When I called Chirac a pompous dickhead 2 or 3 times in another thread, how many were defending him? Easy counting, Ming...

[Velociryx]

HO - I disagree. I specifically disagree because while you are right that the *source* of the scare could come from anyplace, there were only three mentioned. Big surprise, but one of those three was Iraq.

Funny how, given German/French opposition to an attack on Iraq, that little detail was quietly forgotten. I know, I know, our enlightened superiors in Europe obviously have some deeply humanitarian reason for "forgetting" to mention it, and for "forgetting" to let the rest of the world in on the secret, so they too, could start bulking up on vaccine. Obviously, we dim-wits on this side of the pond lack the ability to grasp the subtle magnificence of the plan, which is, of course, why we were left in the dark.

Nah.

More likely, the simplest explanation is correct....that being, fessing up to the knowledge that Iraq has this stuff runs counter to the big rallying cry of the Paris Pact (more time, more inspectors, we need PROOF of womd's), and because of that, it was hushed up.

Can't very well make a stand against the US, diplomatically if you reveal the smoking gun you're asking for.

-=Vel=-

[HershOstropoler]

"Obviously, we dim-wits on this side of the pond lack the ability to grasp the subtle magnificence of the plan, which is, of course, why we were left in the dark."

Can't help it, but: Pooooooor Yanks.

Your government has claimed all kinds of proof that Iraq not only posesses that stuff, but also they hand it out to Osama. You really need that last bit of info for... what?

"this stuff runs counter to the big rallying cry of the Paris Pact (more time, more inspectors, we need PROOF of womd's)"

If it were proof, that would be a prefect reason to cover it up. But then explain why
- it was leaked in a budget document
- it was not used by Powell before the UN

[DuncanK]

Many Europeans here defend their politians when it suits them. Many of them are defending Chirac for telling Eastern European leaders to shut up about the war.

[HershOstropoler]

And none of them disagrees that he's a pompous dickhead.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Your government has claimed all kinds of proof that Iraq not only posesses that stuff, but also they hand it out to Osama. You really need that last bit of info for... what?

Nope, we never said there was proof, only that it was obvious. This proof thing is all rhetoric created by your side of the pond. Of course we are talking about proof, because you guys keep bringing it up. So we can't talk to you about it, unless we talk about proof.

[Ming]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
No, it's the same thing.

You seem to misunderstand. We DO agree on this.

Bush is no different or worse than his Euro counterparts.
They are all scum bags

But that would be hard to tell around here since Bush bashing is a main theme here I just think people should look at their own governments before being so smug on their attacks against the American Government.
Some people's Holier than thou attitude is just unwarrented

I know my government is full of it... just like everybody elses

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
And none of them disagrees that he's a pompous dickhead.

I don't know about that, but they defend him.