What do you consider to be the most progressiven nation?

[Odin]

Originally posted by DuncanK
Odin,

it's not because you're Swedish is it?

No, I'm 3/4 Norwegian and 1/4 German

[Az]

I thought you were american.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Holland has a loooong history of respect for indivindual rights. Didn't come overnight...
Still I don't like the end result.
Went to Amsterdam, was hussled by drug pushers in mid day on central streets and saw the most brutal bar brawl.
All that in one day. And the streets of Amsterdam didn't seem too safe to me.
If that's the result I want none of it
But if that's what Hollanders want, fine

Must have been "A Bad Day In Amsterdam" Drug pushers are merely an annoyance and bar brawls happen all over the world. Compared to other big cities Amsterdam has the feel of a small town. If it weren't for Amsterdammers (that a word?) and Ajax it would be a great town

[MrFun]

You know, I am warming more and more towards Canada.

If Canada really is the more socially progressive nation, and if someday I would decide to live in Canada, I would suffer the least amount of culture shock and lingual difficulties -- as long as I steer clear of Quebec.

At least in Canada, the society is more willing to acknowledge the human dignity of homosexuals. Or am I mistaken to presume that?

[Sava]

British Columbia sounds nice... I'll become a marijuana farmer

But alas, I'm an American. I don't like mayonaise, I won't say, "aboot", and I can't stand Canadian football. I'd rather try and make the US a better place than to give up and head north.

[MrFun]

I was thinking maybe I should elaborate or clarify more on what I meant in my initial post.

societal problems: ghettos/slums, poverty, widespread discrimination, corporate corruption/exploitation, government corruption, quality of education system

ensuring justice: abolishment of death penalty, abolishment of racial profiling, equal sentences for criminals regardless of minority or majority group status

distribution of wealth kinda overlaps with societal problems: again, poverty; fair taxation system between all classes, abolishment of corporate welfare

equal rights: again, overlapping with societal problems; making discrimination illegal based on sexual orientation, effective enforcement of pre-existing equal rights/opportunity laws

[MOBIUS]

Speaking as someone who has actually been to almost all the countries on this list (excluding Norway and Finland), I would have to say without doubt that the Netherlands is the most progressive country...

I would follow that with the Scandinavian countries, although a big minus in their book are the astronomical prices for alcohol in those countries - you also have to wonder why so many people commit suicide in Sweden as well...

As for the US...

Originally posted by MrFun
societal problems: ghettos/slums, poverty, widespread discrimination, corporate corruption/exploitation, government corruption, quality of education system

Netherlands: Poverty although obviously existing in some parts, doesn't seem to be an issue here. There is limited discrimination, but then Pim Fortuyn did get elected posthumously last year. Not sure about corruption, but then don't hear about it. Education seems very good indeed - the Dutch all seem to know at least three languages fluently. Embarrassingly, many young Dutch can speak English better than many English - that is a fact!

US: Abject, crushing, poverty is so widespread it is sickening! Admittedly a lot of it is nicely hidden away in Black ghettoes and Indian Reservations - but it's there big time! Corruption: Big Time - Enron, and those other companies, the Bush election etc. Education, I'll just say it's not as good as the Dutch and leave it at that...

ensuring justice: abolishment of death penalty, abolishment of racial profiling, equal sentences for criminals regardless of minority or majority group status

Let's see, the US seems to be against most of that and the Dutch seems to be for it - advantage Dutch!

distribution of wealth kinda overlaps with societal problems: again, poverty; fair taxation system between all classes, abolishment of corporate welfare

Same as above

equal rights: again, overlapping with societal problems; making discrimination illegal based on sexual orientation, effective enforcement of pre-existing equal rights/opportunity laws

Same as above. Dutch allow gay marriages, drugs, regulated prostitution, less in your face racism, less death on the streets etc.

I thought Amsterdam was a cool place to hang out and after a couple of days people stop asking you if you want drugs as you somehow blend in with the locals by the 3rd day or so...

[Hueij]

Hehehe, sorry Mobius but all is not well in Paradise

We have our share of poverty and ghettos, our corruption, our xenophobia...

About us speaking at least three languages? Most of us speak only Dutch, a few of us speak heavily accented basic English and that's about it...

But all in all I think we are doing alright, though it always could be better...

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Hueij
Hehehe, sorry Mobius but all is not well in Paradise

We have our share of poverty and ghettos, our corruption, our xenophobia...

About us speaking at least three languages? Most of us speak only Dutch, a few of us speak heavily accented basic English and that's about it...

But all in all I think we are doing alright, though it always could be better...

Yeah well you guys hide it well, cos in the US it is often in your face.

As for languages, you're right about the older generation but my experience is that pretty much anyone my age or younger seems to also know English and German. Some sound so 'english' that I have trouble actually believing they're Dutch.

It might also help that I worked for Shell for 4 years and was surrounded by a lot of Dutch, maybe that skewed my opinions slightly...

[Hueij]

Dunno your age, but people under 30 don't speak German anymore. Since we got cable tv we don't watch German tv anymore so we lost our ability to speak German

And it's the older generations that speak more than just Dutch and English

[Odin]

Originally posted by Azazel
I thought you were american.

I wish I wasn't..............

(gets dragged off by Ashcroft's SS officers.)

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Where is Switzerland?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Just to point out - multicultural/ neutral/ no wars for centuries/ rich / educated etc... surely a good example where the world should be going.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

PPP is good. It shows actually how much people have to spend as opposed to what a mythical average person might have.

[Spiffor]

Sweden

I've hesitated between Sweden and Netherlands, but I have picked Sweden eventually.
The Netherlands have shown their ugly face during 2002's elections, when a racist list in favor of killing junkees became second. It was typically dutch, because you'd see nowhere else in the world a gay far-right charismatic leader (Pim Fortuyn).
The Dutch have great achievements, but I get the impression they are closing to other peoples because they are soo proud of them.

Sweden has an extremely good record re wealth distribution, while keeping a performant economy. There is a nearly complete gender equality there (it is somtimes excessive, I've heard they want to forbid urinals as a symbol of male dominance), and the society is less closed on itself, even if far right parties are now stronger than before.