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  • Schröder's coalition near collapse over leak?

    Schröder's coalition near collapse over leak
    From Roger Boyes in Berlin


    GERMANY’S coalition Government was on the brink of collapse yesterday as details emerged of a row between Gerhard Schröder, the Chancellor, and Joschka Fischer, the Foreign Minister, who threatened to quit over differences on Iraq. Herr Fischer, the leader of the Green Party, was enraged over weekend press leaks of a Franco-German plan to establish a UN protectorate in Iraq. The leak, to Der Spiegel magazine, appeared to come from the Chancellery or Social Democrat headquarters.
    The Foreign Minister immediately telephoned Herr Schröder to demand an explanation. “It was a loud and emotional exchange of views,” a German diplomat said. “Relations between the Chancellor and his Foreign Minister have plunged into an ice age,” Bild newspaper said. Last night Berlin denied that there was a rift between the men.

    Herr Fischer was involved in attempts to boost the presence of UN inspectors in Iraq. He appears to have passed on some information to the Pope during a meeting on Friday. But the detail in the plan published yesterday, including a proposal for UN troops to man roadblocks in Iraq with French Mirage jets flying overhead, did not form part of Foreign Ministry calculations.

    German diplomats are well aware that an American plan for a robust UN inspection system was floated last year and dropped, having drawn little international enthusiasm. A European reworking of that plan, drawn up without the consultation of the United States, would be seen only as an affront by Washington.

    Herr Fischer has seen his diplomatic options diminish in the past six months as Herr Schröder became more vocal in his opposition to war. Germany’s isolation was evident at the weekend’s defence conference in Munich, attended by Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, where Herr Fischer bore the brunt of American fury at Germany’s stand on Iraq.

    Herr Fischer has now been snubbed at least three times by the Chancellor. He was not warned in advance when Herr Schröder started to mobilise voter support during the general election campaign by warning against a US-led war. He was also wrong-footed when the Chancellor announced that Germany would never accept a UN resolution “legitimising a war” against Iraq. Herr Schröder has also mocked and publicly called to order one of Herr Fischer’s key diplomats, the German envoy to the UN.

    Herr Fischer’s authority depends on public support from the Chancellor, on close European co-operation beyond the Franco-German axis, on the trust of Washington and on discipline within his Green Party. All these pillars have crumbled since the general election six months ago.

    When rumours of resignation spread three weeks ago, the Chancellor called in Herr Fischer for a “clarifying talk”. But for two hours the men, formerly friends who forged the idea of a Social Democratic-Green alliance in a pub conversation some 20 years ago, conducted a shouting match.

    Later the Chancellor declared, to the irritation of Herr Fischer: “Let’s face it, the grass roots of the Green Party are closer to me than to the Foreign Minister.”

  • #2
    How is Schroder's party likely to fare in a new election?
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #3
      What are the consequences if the government falls? Do the Christian Democrats get a shot at forming a government or are there new elections?
      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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      • #4
        Fischer is probably pissed that he didn't get a second crack at blindsiding Powell like he tried at the U.N.

        As for the plan, won't this play as colonialism by every Arab nation? If the Axis of Weasel occupies Iraq, does that mean Saddam gets to stay? Why are they rehashing an American Plan? Would the French and Germans public even go for this?
        If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.

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        • #5
          Maybe Osama Bin Laden will take control?

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          • #6
            It is seeming more and more probable in my eyes that the German Prime minister is just apposing the US for his own political gain, Germany being rather anti-american and all, probably makes Shcroder look like a hero.
            Anybody know his ratings or anything like that?
            "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
            - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
            Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

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            • #7
              "Maybe Osama Bin Laden will take control?"

              He would probably win a substantial portion of the German vote.

              Schroeder is a scumbag, I sure hope his coalition collapses and the right can regain power in Germany.
              "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

              "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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              • #8
                I'm not sure what to think, especially after reading and hearing about a respected poll conducted in Germany where approximately 56 percent of the respondents considered the American people to be warmongers.

                Perhaps Germany should get its internal affairs in order before embarking on international adventures, be it military, economic or diplomatic?

                Gatekeeper
                "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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                • #9
                  How is Schroder's party likely to fare in a new election?


                  If elections were right now, he would be crushed utterly. Not because of his foreign policy, but his lousy domestic policy. But next elections are in 3 years and a lot can happen in this time.

                  What are the consequences if the government falls? Do the Christian Democrats get a shot at forming a government or are there new elections?


                  The Christian Democrats are the only alternative, strong enough to take the power. But I highly doubt, that the coalition will fail. The Greens are miffed, but they are the smaller partner and so far have always given in, when it came to a skirmish with the Social Democrats.

                  Germany being rather anti-american and all, probably makes Shcroder look like a hero.


                  Pre-Bush Germany was in no way as anti American as it is now, and I doubt it will stay this way after his defeat in 2004. And most Germans see Schröder as a moron, on the even with Bush.

                  I'm not sure what to think, especially after reading and hearing about a respected poll conducted in Germany where approximately 56 percent of the respondents considered the American people to be warmongers.


                  Does this surprise anyone? I'm rather surprised, that the number is so low.

                  Perhaps Germany should get its internal affairs in order before embarking on international adventures, be it military, economic or diplomatic?


                  Thank God the US have no internal affairs.

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                  • #10
                    did any of you German people read about the report by German intelligence that Iraq is indeed developing WMD?

                    I think it was in Focus. Is Focus a respectable magazine?
                    urgh.NSFW

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                    • #11
                      Is Focus a respectable magazine?

                      Hocus Focus is like "Der Spiegel" with more coloured pictures and less text.
                      but the german secret service seems to do a better job than CIA, let away the british. who would have thought that?
                      justice is might

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                      • #12
                        hey, I don't know about your magazines, don't shoot the messenger.

                        anyway, if this article is true, why doesn't Germany support the US?
                        urgh.NSFW

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gatekeeper
                          I'm not sure what to think, especially after reading and hearing about a respected poll conducted in Germany where approximately 56 percent of the respondents considered the American people to be warmongers.

                          Perhaps Germany should get its internal affairs in order before embarking on international adventures, be it military, economic or diplomatic?

                          Gatekeeper
                          40 percent of british think that america is a threat to world peace (only 27 % think so for iraq and n. korea). so much for you allies.

                          as for internal squabbles, how about another recount in florida? we do not like this president of yours one single bit

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                          • #14
                            hey, I don't know about your magazines, don't shoot the messenger.

                            anyway, if this article is true, why doesn't Germany support the US?
                            sorry, this wasn´t meant to shoot the messenger. Focus is just a funny magazine which no one takes too serious here.

                            no one in Germany really doubts about Iraq producing WMD.
                            but: it seems obvoius that Iraq has no nuclear weapons.
                            it seems obvious that Iraq is no threat to its neighbours anymore.
                            it seems obvious that there is not the slightest link to Al Quaeda or any other Islamistic terror group.
                            it seems obvious that Iraq can be disarmed in a more peaceful way within a couple of years (months?).

                            it seems obvious that the US administration wants war and doesn´t accept any peaceful approach in any way.
                            it seems obvoius that this war is more important for Bush than any existing alliance (EU, NATO, UN, Anti-Terror Pact)
                            that´s why Germany (or at least the German population) doesn´t support the US.
                            justice is might

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                            • #15
                              schroeder and chirac do currently represent popular opinion in europe

                              opposed to war:

                              77% Irish

                              72% Portuguese

                              78% Finns

                              79% Danes

                              79% Italians

                              81% Luxembourgers

                              81% Swedes

                              85% Austrians
                              (source: BBC)

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