Re-Shaping the landscape in the wake of the Cold War

[chequita guevara]

Velociryx, my point is simply, until we are free, we won't be allowed to help anyone else.

It's not whether or not we have the resources, it's not a matter of focus. It's simply, we lack the political capacity to change anything abroad. As long as we are only given two choices of the exact same thing, what chance is there for us to help those whom we screwed over? As long as both parties refuse to act as we wish, what can we do?

Does this mean we ignore the plight of the Third World? What do you think the so-called anti-globalization movement is about? Forcing our leadership to stop screwing over the Third World. Despite massive protests in the streets, despite the opposition of most Americans, both parties have continued to support policies which screw the Third World.

Until we can get them out of office, our actions will have no results. Until we change the laws governing how we pick our government, we can't get them out of office.


Let me try an explain it this way. You're chained to a wall. So are a bunch of other prisoners. You can't reach them. Until you are free yourself, you cannot help your fellow prisoners.

[Velociryx]

Then you miss the point of my initial post.

We are an imperfect people. We have an imperfect government. Not only the United States, but every government, and every people on the planet. Human beings have faults and flaws. They likely always will.

It is not my stated goal that we (as in, the US, acting with the support of the UN) fix the problems we face. We (the US and our allies) must seek to restructure the UN in such a way that empowers IT to do what we cannot do ourselves. We must strive to make it better than we ourselves are, and we can do that, as a global community.

To extend your analogy of the prisoners chained to the wall. Your way proposes that we (acting alone) attempt to unchain ourselves (fix our government) so that we may unchain the others. My proposal assumes that the chains that bind us are weak (and as you have demonstrated in your earlier posts, change IS occuring, even as we type), and so we (the prisoners chained to the wall, representing the nations of the Western World) bend the ear of the guard who is sympathetic to our plight (the UN) and promise him our collected aid and support (creating an empowered, restructured UN as outlined above), let HIM go into the next room to free the prisoners (the portion of the world suffering under monsters that we made), while we free ourselves from our shackles.

-=Vel=-

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Velociryx
But to say that we cannot save a starving man abroad because we must first deal with a corrupted man at home is inaccurate and, IMO smacks of moral weakness.
-=Vel=-

How about dealing with the starving man at home. We can't even do that, because we aren't motivated by a purpose to do that. We are incapable of working in the interest of other nations. Hell, we can't even work in the interest of other Americans. We're too caught up in greed and self-interest. Look at the average American. What really makes him tick? Now how do you come to the point where you believe that he is going to lead the world to some kind of utopia.... We have to heal ourselves first. We have been corrupted my faulty morals.

[Velociryx]

I've got ideas and a plan for that too, Duncan, but that's the topic for another thread....

EDIT: But, so as not to look like a spam shark, I'll give you the honor of starting that thread, if you like....I'll be more than happy to add my two cents worth....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Come to think of it, the ideas I've got in my hand to address the problems you outline, will also address the problems Che sees (but not in the way he would like to see them addressed, I don't think)....could be an interesting thread, though I'm sure I'll find sharp disagreements....

-=Vel=-

[DuncanK]

ok, I'll try. I'm not sure I know exactly what you want. Is it something like: "How do we make Americans more socially conscience?"

[DuncanK]

Vel,

This is just being smart A$$, but how about these other thread starters

How do we make Americans more socially conscious to:

1) make more profit for corporations

2) win more wars

[Velociryx]

Ummm....well, those would certainly do the trick, but really, what we're talking about is fixing what ails america....I mean, if the stated goal is to put us in a position to help others, then start us up a thread outlining all the things you see as being "wrong" with the country, and/or why we are not in a position to help the rest of the world right now....that kinda thing. You line 'em up, I'll do my level best to knock 'em down....

-=Vel=-

[Kingof the Apes]

Vel- I like your plan.

But a question that arises is this:
Do you ever think there will be a worldwide government? Not like the UN, with many nations part of it, but a government elected by all the people on earth?

My thought on that is no. People are too partisan.

[DuncanK]

I'll set one up tomorrow. It will please both of us I think.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
How to do this? In every state of the union we need laws that do the following: public financing of elections, recall of elected officials, citizen initiatives which require a super majority of the legislatures to overturn, proportional division of electoral votes, and proportional elections for at least one legislative house.

Why not just abolish the electoral college? It is an obsolete artifact of the past. Sure, this requires amending the constitution, but so do some measures you have listed.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kingof the Apes
Do you ever think there will be a worldwide government? Not like the UN, with many nations part of it, but a government elected by all the people on earth?

My thought on that is no. People are too partisan.

That should be the way to go, but it will be a long, hard, fight. Perhaps regional blocs like the EU will be formed first, then the merge to be a worldwide government.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How to do this? In every state of the union we need laws that do the following: public financing of elections, recall of elected officials, citizen initiatives which require a super majority of the legislatures to overturn, proportional division of electoral votes, and proportional elections for at least one legislative house.

Nope, nope, nope, ok, nope.

You are assuming that democracy is inherantly good .

Cuba is clearly more democratic than the US.

And to think I ever took you seriously!!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Why not just abolish the electoral college? It is an obsolete artifact of the past. Sure, this requires amending the constitution, but so do some measures you have listed.

Everything I mentioned can be done on a state by state basis. Abolishing the electoral college would require an amendment to the Constitution, which would require 3/4rs of the states to agree. And regardless of how democratic we've made the states, the smaller states won't agree to have the EC abolished. The only other way would be to call a Constitutional Convention, and that last time we did that we got a whole new government.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Cuba is clearly more democratic than the US.

And to think I ever took you seriously!!

It's a legitimate question, though. Which is more democratic: a government where people can elect different leaders but not change the policies or one which they can't change the leader but the policies change to match the needs of the people? In some ways, Cuba is far more democratic that the US. In other ways, the US is far more democratic.

BTW, Imran, I consider democracy inherently better than everything else. It may not be inherently good, but it is inherently better.

Also, each of the laws I've mentioned exists or has existed to some extent in one or more states in the US, inlcuding proportional legistatures (Illinois).