Why doesn't the average American understand the concept of haggling?

[Buck Birdseed]

From what I can see in this thread, most people will just buy stuff, willy-nilly, without caring about principles like "lowest price". We don't have any concious buyers here...

[Dinner]

That's because most of the people on this site are children. Once they live on their own, paying rent, making a car payment, saving to buy furniture, budgeting to afford that vacation the girlfriend has been bugging them about, trying to keep the frig stocked, their clothes in fashion, the utilities paid, and a million other things then they will learn the value of a dollar.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Buck: You forgetting about competetion. In most countries where haggling doesn't occur the competetion amoung retailers is the most ferrious. Since most people buy most of their goods from the store with the lowest price the other two dozen stores are forced to lower their prices or go out of business.

In an economy with sufficient competetion the profit margins will naturally stay small due to consumers preferentially buying from stores with lower prices.

OMG, another one who thinks that competition makes a difference.

Say I want to buy a TV. I can go to every damn store in town and haggle with every damn salesman to try to get the lowest price. Should I get the price that I would get if there were perfect competition? NO! Because there is not perfect competition. The reason is that most people just go to the closest store and buy there. In order for a prefect market to exist time and space would not exist. Since time and space do exist you are silly for claiming that competition is significant.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
From what I can see in this thread, most people will just buy stuff, willy-nilly, without caring about principles like "lowest price".

Personally I would rather have the real price listed on the things I'm likely to buy/use on a vacation rather than go through a meaningless and time consuming kabuki dance designed to get to the real price of the item.

[Dinner]

Most of the people I know don't want to bother haggling. Instead they shop around and buy only from the store with the lowest price. This rewards the guy who originally advertised the low price and insures more people will get a better price then if you had haggled alone with joe blow retailer.

It's easier and you get low prices more often then with haggling.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
From what I can see in this thread, most people will just buy stuff, willy-nilly, without caring about principles like "lowest price". We don't have any concious buyers here...

What people do at home and what they do on vacation are two different things altogether. People here will clip coupons, watch for sales and shop around for the best deal they can so that they can save some money for their vacation.

Once they're out enjoying themselves, money is not the issue. Everything they have is over and above what they need in order to survive, a surplus. So they indulge themselves while they can, and damn the expense. If they felt they couldn't afford it, they wouldn't have gone on a vacation in the first place.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The reason is that most people just go to the closest store and buy there.

Yes, much lower oppertunity cost.

And you are DEFINETLY underplaying competition. Many people DO look around for the cheapest price on high value items. In those cases, competition matters a Hell of a lot.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The reason is that most people just go to the closest store and buy there.

Yes, much lower oppertunity cost.

And you are DEFINETLY underplaying competition. Many people DO look around for the cheapest price on high value items. In those cases, competition matters a Hell of a lot.

Houses and cars yes. Actually, when I bought my car I noticed that there were only 2 Honda dealers in town. Yes, I went to both, but not much competition there is there.

Houses are really the same way. Not many houses are much alike. People are very particular about the house they buy. You are unlikely to find two houses that you really want and choose the one that is cheaper. Instead, you have a price range and you hope to find a house in that price range that you really like.

[Dinner]

You need to buy your automobiles in a larger city then. When I bought my Ford I shopped around at all 16 of the Ford dealers in San Diego. Actually the internet speed up the comparison shopping thing because I got to send an e-mail to all 16 telling them exactly what color, model, and options I wanted and then they got one chance to send me the lowest possible price they'd sell it at. I only went in to the dealer who quoted me the lowest price and I ended up buying my car for (the consumer reports listed) dealer cost plus 1%. That was thousands below sticker price and I even got low financing.

Make competetion your friend and you'll save alot of money even if you don't feel like haggling.

[MOBIUS]

People seem to think it takes a long time to haggle - it takes about 10 seconds to reduce the price by say 25%. Depending on the item, I can reduce it by > 50% within a minute.

Bigger things take longer - but then the savings are larger.

Seriously though, they seem to double the starting price if they think you're american - are you guys seriously happy to be charged twice as much for an item than say an Aussie just because of your nationality!!?

That if I and one of you stood within earshot of each other and the said '200' to me and '400' to you, that you would fork out the 400? You would demand the same price!

I cannot believe you guys are prepared to be so pig headed that you're prepared to waste so much money frivolously! You guys must be so loaded that when you go on holiday you don't even need to budget...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Firstly, the act of haggling should be an enjoyable discourse, you are acting as a local more.

It is fun the first few times, but not when it is the 50th time.

Originally posted by MOBIUS
It shouldn't even take too much time and the vendor will actually respect you more for it - in Thailand for example, people have been known to be insulted when offered a large tip.

Possibly, but it is not same thing.

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Secondly, I find the argument that we should pay them hugely inflated prices because they're 'poor' highly patronising - they don't want your pity, they want your business. If you pay hugely inflated prices you are merely showing your ignorance/indifference to their way of life.

You miss the point entirely. I wasn't saying paying them hugely inflated prices is a good thing.

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Indeed, if you want to be truly charitable, you should haggle as much as possible because ultimately you will help more people - if I can buy something for a quarter of the price of an American (are you sure you don't care about being ripped off???), it means I can buy four times as many goods - thus helping four times as many people!

You are still spending X amount of money. How does this work?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
I think the sentiments expressed by many in this thread are as good a proof as any why straight Capitalism doesn't work outside the local, small-group, high-information area, much like Communism. It's this kind of "let's not haggle, let's hunt for the best price, let's just go in and buy something for the hell of it!" attitude that leads to cartelling, to inefficiency, to "good enough" attitudes and ultimately to loadsa waste and overpriced goods.

Interesting spin, but completely wrong. In the third world countries we predominantly have small handicraft shops and the like. This is not real capitalism. You have to remember capitalism starts where the people who have money no longer need to be actually productive themselves - they don't have to do work, their money makes money for them.

It is impossible to have large cartels and monopolies until industrialisation, where corporations can take advantage of economy of scale, and where captial needs to be highly concentrated.

[mindseye]

As an American living in Asia, I have thought quite a bit about this.

I think many of the reasons cited act together, but perhaps the most significant are:

(1) Culturally, North Americans consider haggling to be less than respectable behavior, and find it very hard to stoop to it, even if locals appear to accept it. For many, this cultural inhibition is quite strong. Tourists must make many such decisions of cultural adaption during the short time they are abroad. For many North Americans, haggling is a disagreeable thing, it feels cheap and petty. It should not be surprising that many will avoid disagreeable things while on vacation. This should not be hard to understand, but I guess it's less fun than cheap American-bashing.

(2) Many North American tourists traveling in developing nations feel that the amount in question is worth so vastly much more to the local that they just write it off as a small, personal donation to a good cause. When they realize that their US/Can $20 has five times the buying power to the local, they don't mind "sharing the wealth" a little while they are having fun. It's the same as people leaving large tips while vacationing back home. I guess your anti-Americanism prevents you from considering that North American tourists just might be relatively generous people - made more keenly aware, when traveling in the developing world, of their good luck in place of birth.

Haggling done properly is a good natured affair.

I guess it's different when you actually live with it and the novelty wears off. Like you, I pay the price for it - locals sometimes think I am a tourist, rather than a resident, or just assume that since I have a white face I must be rich. It can quickly become little more than a tiresome ritual - thank heavens it's fast vanishing in urban China.

We both put the same amount of money into the economy.

How do you know North Americans are not spending a larger total sum per vacation?

Specially when I said that I'm not looking to save money, but make it go further...

But since you take away more goods for the same money, don't they make less profit from you?

where tourists should be made to pay over the odds in a form of enforced 'charity'...

Well, perhaps most North Americans traveling on holiday are a little less averse to charity than you are. I don't want to portray them as saints of generosity, just folks who don’t mind spending a bit while having fun, especially if they already feel they are getting something cheaply anyway.

If you feel uncomfortable about engaging in local customs, or eating the local food etc, perhaps you shouldn't visiting that country...

Well, everyone must draw the line somewhere. Did you accept local Balinese hygenic customs? Sure, some travelers are hopelessly provincial in dealing with local customs, however maybe they're the ones who benefit most from international travel.

I am able to spread my wealth evenly, whereas with American buying patterns, only a few lucky vendors make a profit.

Or maybe you help keep a large number in near-subsistance, whereas the Americans make a difference in someone's life for a while.

Why travel if the first thing you do when you touch down is seek comfort in a Dunkin' Donuts?
(...)
Only ignorant morons waste their money knowingly
(...)
be so pig headed that you're prepared to waste so much money frivolously

(my emphasis)
I bet those local Balinese would disagree with you on the definition of "waste"! Cheap insults like these detract quite a bit from your credibility. Maybe Canadians and Americans are less averse than you to throwing a few bucks around while they are having fun, especially of those bucks should happen to land in the hands of someone for whom they have much more value. Certainly, I doubt many tourist vendors share your complaint!

For someone who makes quite a bit of hay about respecting cultures, you sure seem to have a very hard time respecting that of North Americans. I guess that might conflict with the simple, ugly stereotypes you so enjoy embracing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Actually, when I bought my car I noticed that there were only 2 Honda dealers in town. Yes, I went to both, but not much competition there is there.

Listen to Oerdin, or my parents. I tell you they are the KINGS of shopping around, and that has passed to me a bit. I always look at many different places for the best price (though I admit at times I'm spontaneous ). It is fairly easy to find a better price than the first place you look.

[DanS]

It's the same as people leaving large tips while vacationing back home.

Or not vacationing. I'm not averse to tipping very well, or tipping disproportionate to what is considered the norm.