Why doesn't the average American understand the concept of haggling?

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

they would not sell the goods to me if they weren't making some money.

In Bali we were paying about 20,000 for sarongs down from about 75,000 in Kuta and Ubud, when we were touring the countryside they were so desperate because of the effect of last year's bomb attack that the starting price was 10,000! That was the only time we bought at full price, because you could see their desperation as the tourists just weren't visiting those areas...

The point is they're still making a profit at 10,000, so the full price that Americans pay represents a staggering profit ratio. Paying inflated prices distorts the economy and promotes greed, I think it's a bad thing. The reason why Bali is in so much trouble now is that it has become almost 100% reliant on tourism over the years - now the tourists have gone for the time being...

Besides when you travel you have a budget of how much you're prepared to spend over the holiday. I spend that just like the American, it's just I come back with more and better stuff because my money went further. We both put the same amount of money into the economy.

and you are proud of yourself for exploiting these people

[Skanky Burns]

Helping people make a living is exploitation?

[Asher]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
The best things I have EVER done is travel to all the places I have in the World - it has been worth every penny, dollar, franc, lira, peseta etc...

You should try it some time...

I've been many places in the world, and I just don't see the interest in it.

Maybe I just don't have that silly human instinct to explore everything like most people do. And it's going to save me a lot of money.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

The point is they're still making a profit at 10,000, so the full price that Americans pay represents a staggering profit ratio. Paying inflated prices distorts the economy and promotes greed, I think it's a bad thing.

Please explain to me why paying a staggering profit ratio is a bad thing. I'm curious as to your rationale.

PS Though I'd have to agree with your interaction bit. That is a good aspect.

[DuncanK]

SB,

When you make enough money to travel the world on vacation and then you negotiate a price for something so that the shop owner can barely make a living, of course that is exploitation.

[David Floyd]

Haggling

I work in retail, and people try to haggle all the time. I generally laugh at these people.

As che said, time is money. I'd rather spend more money and have more time - if I'm on vacation, I have money to blow, and damned if I'm not gonna blow it. Besides, I'll be too drunk to haggle, anyway.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Helping people make a living is exploitation?

Yeah that's got me beat too.

Specially when I said that I'm not looking to save money, but make it go further...

Fine, you guys are obviously happy being lazy and wasting your money. Personally I'd rather be staying in my swa-nky hotel when you're paying through the nose for your drab room...

Haggling need not be a waste of time, most times I've bought the item within a minute if it's a small thing. Take my hotel room example, that I did whilst I was checking the room - total extra time spent haggling = 0!

Please explain to me why paying a staggering profit ratio is a bad thing. I'm curious as to your rationale

I'm no economist, but I think the reason why Bali is in the mess it is now is precisely that. Huge amounts of money flowed in from tourism to a previously self-sufficient economy increasing prices for everyone. Those not in the tourist industry couldn't afford the rises and turned to the industry meaning that traditional incomes died away. Suddenly tourists disappear and the whole island is f*cked as they don't know how to look after themselves anymore!

EDIT

[Viking Berserk]

Because Americans are stupid and should be categorized as such in all future discussions.

It's true

[Asher]

Do you guys even haggle over things such as petrol/gasoline prices?

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
I'm no economist, but I think the reason why Bali is in the mess it is now is precisely that. Huge amounts of money flowed in from tourism to a previously self-sufficient economy increasing prices for everyone. Those not in the tourist industry couldn't afford the rises and turned to the industry meaning that traditional incomes died away. Suddenly tourists disappear and the whole island is f*cked as they don't know how to look after themselves anymore!

EDIT

So you are going to help them out by offering to pay them for their goods a fraction of what it would cost you in your own country. That's real nice of you.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
I'm no economist, but I think the reason why Bali is in the mess it is now is precisely that. Huge amounts of money flowed in from tourism to a previously self-sufficient economy increasing prices for everyone. Those not in the tourist industry couldn't afford the rises and turned to the industry meaning that traditional incomes died away. Suddenly tourists disappear and the whole island is f*cked as they don't know how to look after themselves anymore!

But what's the alternative, or do you think they'd settle for living exactly the way their great-grandfathers lived?

[DuncanK]

Willem,

I think you want to have increases in the productivity of their traditional industries. Then with the surplus labor you could add more industries. Otherwise prices will rise, and yes, that will make things worse.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Asher
Do you guys even haggle over things such as petrol/gasoline prices?

Actually you could if you wanted to, but we preferred to avoid all that hassle by hiring someone to drive us around where we wanted to go all day with the money we saved by not getting ripped off...

But what's the alternative, or do you think they'd settle for living exactly the way their great-grandfathers lived?

Of course not, but then if the tourists didn't corrupt the locals by overpaying for everything, they would be able to increase their standard of living gradually whilst retaining their way of life.

It's similar to victims of famine - the worst thing you can do is do everything for them, it's makes them dependent and unable to fend for themselves in the long run. Back in the '80's, Ethiopia was a bad example of this.

It is also why you are not supposed to feed wild animals...

Look, at the end of the day, do what you want. Frankly I'm amazed that you guys are so apathetic either saving money or improving the material quality of your hotel. Fine.

[Willem]

Originally posted by DuncanK
I think you want to have increases in the productivity of their traditional industries. Then with the surplus labor you could add more industries.

But that requires capital investment, something that tourism can be very good at generating.

It seems to me that Bali's in the mess it's in simply because they had the misfortune of being victims of a bomb attack. I don't see whether people haggle or not has anything to do with that. If it would never have happened, they'd still be happily scalping North American tourists, who would in turn still be happily wasting their money.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


It is also why you are not supposed to feed wild animals...

That is such a paternalistic statement!