Rugby - Hemisphere Wars!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Cripes!! Caligastia is Jonah!!

Nah, I reckon he probably weighs a fair bit more than me. I'm 228lb at the moment, and that's because I'm unfit.

I was aware of that – though like yourself I am aware of the controversy around the games in the 70s, particularly the one in 78. Looking back it was a sign of how rugby would go really – allegations of SH sides not playing in the ‘spirit’ of the game At least that Welsh side can be proud that they used no gamesmanship like the NZ lock who threw himself out of the lineout pretending he had been clobbered. Disgraceful, if amateur compared to modern histrionics?

My memory of that game is rather faint I'm afraid. I was 4 at the time.

In the tri series you mean?

No, in the world cup. I'm betting that NZ will beat SA by a greater margin in RWC '03 than England will. - and don't worry about gold, I hear the Rugby Thread Gold Treasury has interest-free loans on offer.

If I have that much left after betting against Australia you are on – you won’t put 50 on them home or away – you are a skilful side with oodles of speed merchants but you are not equipped to handle the biff the way we were. Well maybe McCaw from what I hear but one biffer does not a team make? Get a video of the Twickers game and check some of the incredible combinations launched by their centres, fullback and of course Krige – it was brutal. And Mehrts will snap like a twig if the flankers target him as Wilko was.

I'm hoping they will have cleaned their act up by then. Are we on then?

Seriously – settle for beating them without a fatality on the field. It’s going to happen one day unless they start playing rugby again.

That would be a dark day indeed. I reckon they might be boycotted from world rugby again if that happens.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
No, no. Caligastia makes Jonah look like a flea. But I have it on good authority that Caligastia has his hair cut in the Jonah style.

I think if I did my wife would be calling the fashion police before you could say "try!"

Thankfully that stupid gridiron game and baseball and basketball are so far ahead of rugby that their game will never catch up.

I wouldn't say never. They have a larger base of support here than you think, and it's growing at an exponential rate. They do still have a long way to go though.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Nah, I reckon he probably weighs a fair bit more than me. I'm 228lb at the moment, and that's because I'm unfit.

Jeepers, Tamerlin, he's 6 ' 5" and 16 stone! Watch out he doesn't reach across the Atlantic, pick you up by the scruff of the neck and shake you for all your naughtiness in these threads!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
I wouldn't say never. They have a larger base of support here than you think, and it's growing at an exponential rate. They do still have a long way to go though.

Okay, maybe not never, but close enough.

[finbar]

Half time score:

Blues 20

Chiefs 16

The Blues have been playing with 14 men since the fifth minute when Troy Flavell was sent off for stomping. Flavell is a complete and utter idiot. Last week against the Waratahs he headbutted and biffed his own prop before he realised they were in the same colours.

Again, even leaving aside the numerical disadvantage, the Blues are looking very impressive. They're playing the sort of aggressive, attacking rugby that's been missing from their game over the last few seasons. And their two Fijian wingers are absolute dynamite.

[ravagon]

Blues d Chiefs 30-27. Game seemed a little scrappy to say the least. I'm judging from planetrugby's updates mind you. A little tricky trying to smuggle a TV into the office.

[Havak]

although usually it's only the winning team saying it, to be nice to the defeated team.

I think that’s right Bearcat – on the losing side I always tended to say “well done” or “well played” (however much I was seething inside).

Thus far you have avoided the challenge.

If I take that bet and Cal’s I won’t have much left for the tri-series or warm up games?

Never the less I have never enjoyed being accused of perching on a fence so I fancy that bet – Australia are favourites and if they don’t win England or France will. When was the last time the ABs beat any of those sides again? I love the All Blacks in some ways but they are very like England in that they blow the big games most of the time (RWC 91, 95, 99 for example) however well they have played before the offending game as well.

Until then, we might have to consider them pretenders.

Havn’t I always maintained I accept that until such time as we beat yourselves and the ABs a few times running at your places (or even once will do).

What I like now is that two (arguably three) NH sides have reached a point where they can compete to the current IRB laws with SH sides. In some ways Irelands demolition of you was a real milestone for the sport?

A brave attempt at wriggling out of a corner but futile.

If a little unfair. The All Blacks did what they always do when they fell a team can better them – avoid that team for six years. As close as those results in 72 and 78 were I have no doubts the Welsh sides in between those dates were a better side than the ABs. I strongly suggest you check out the 73 and 75 games against Australia. Look at results in the same six year period against England and France in those two countries. Do not underestimate the achievements of that Welsh side. And ask youself this – why do the ABs avoid teams for long periods, sometimes for a decade? You think it’s pure coincidence?

Now will you look at that – you got me defending Wales!!!

At least someone is resisting George Witless.

It is important I suppose. With Tony rushing to become head of the 51st State.

the American self-interest that lies behind their plan for, um, "regime change", is a thousand times more outrageous.

I’m not daft – I see it for what it is, a twofold strategy of securing a huge oil reserve for US use and even more critically a son trying to correct his fathers career ending error. I truly believe the latter is more the driving force myself.

At the same time I would shed no tears to see Sadam out of this world.

He's so far up George Witless' a*se he could clean Witless' teeth from the inside.

If you see him ask him to say Hello to Tony from me next time his is up there?

Far from it. The place will be packed with Australians barracking for Les Bleus!

I’d still need a ticket. The chance to see so many disappointed Australians again would be hard to resist.

It was Havak who enlarged the claim to have the 1970s Red Devils as the best of all time. And was promptly shot down in flames.

I should have been clearer that I don’t give a monkies which of the Welsh or AB sides of the Seventies try to lay claim to that title. The England side of this century has a far better claim to that honourific.

Let me see when was the last time the ABs or Wallabies beat the other four sides in the top five in direct sequence….hmmm?




Now I hope you guys appreciate all the hard work I do setting myself up for a fall?

I don't know what you are speaking about...

Incomplete sentence: "... in terms of adopting amended directives."

I stand corrected. Now could you answer the point on comparative compliance between our countries please?

I agree but exemptions should not become the rule.

Again I can’t see us ever voluntarily giving any exemptions up. Stubborness maybe?

Its success can only be evaluated in the long term and believe me I know its cost as I am paying it every day...

You make good points. I do think it has wider problems though. Calling it the Euro was a fatal one. You could have had the UK in from the start had it been called for example “sterling”. Yes my countrymen are that superficial. But seriously a neutral name would have helped. Call it a “Jonno” or a “Magne” and it would have been fine – but ‘Euro’ automatically triggers the Brit isolationist reflex I am afraid.

I’m not an economist – but I also don’t understand how the weaker economies contribute anything useful to the Euro? Places like Ireland and Portugal that is?

Ferdinand de Lesseps (I had to find a french one)

London, Paris and Vienna still are beacons. The combined population of the UK and France for example makes a number even the US cannot ignore when combined. And there I have accidentally hit on the strength of the EU have I not?

The colonial mind set has not died but the colonial Empire has.

We still have the Shetland Isles.

As you can see we are still at the core the same little pests you have tried to get rid of for a thousand years.

I prefer to think of it that we both felt we would be the best landlord for the other?

It’s worth pointing out that militarily we have been rock solid allies for over a hundred years now (scary isn’t it?)

I don't think France and Germany are only defending their interests here but are rather trying to enforce a policy they consider is the right one and the better for the future. Moreover USA should not be allowed to dictate their policy over the world by ignoring the rest of the world.

Here I disagree. I see no evidence at all that France and Germany are acting out of the goodness of their hearts inside the EC. And yes it sucks that the US say jump and the world says how high – but the big dog rules the pack, the world has always been that way?

These are exactly the arguments used by Jeff Probyn and unfortunately I think you are right.

I was careful to avoid assaying whether I liked it or not. I think it’s inevitable that’s all.

By the way – the Australians are perversely proud of that prison heritage – the tour guides are always pointing out the original landing sites where the ‘Crims’ first set foot and the locations of original penal camps. They think we did them a favour – after all they get better weather and a better standard of living apparently – or at least a lot of them say that to you (and I bet most of those saying it have never left Oz eh Finbar?)

Poor old Finbar – a clever word play about Austria and Tanerlin missed it in the translation.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Blues d Chiefs 30-27. Game seemed a little scrappy to say the least. I'm judging from planetrugby's updates mind you. A little tricky trying to smuggle a TV into the office.

Actually it was quite a good match. Quality rugby from the Chiefs early, higher quality rugby from the Blues later. Playing with 14 men for just about the entire match finally told on them and the Chiefs got closer than they probably should have. An outstanding try - one of two - from one of the Fijian wingers late in the match. Blinding speed, superb evasion and ball control.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Never the less I have never enjoyed being accused of perching on a fence so I fancy that bet ? Australia are favourites and if they don?t win England or France will.

Goodoh! I've got 50 Civ Gold saying the ABs will win, you've got the same saying they won't. What could be simpler?

Havn?t I always maintained I accept that until such time as we beat yourselves and the ABs a few times running at your places (or even once will do).

Nice to see it in writing though.

What I like now is that two (arguably three) NH sides have reached a point where they can compete to the current IRB laws with SH sides. In some ways Irelands demolition of you was a real milestone for the sport?

Good thing too and about bloody time. It was lonely at the top.

Now will you look at that ? you got me defending Wales!!!

A-ha! You fell for my incredibly well planned trap!

I?m not daft ? I see it for what it is, a twofold strategy of securing a huge oil reserve for US use and even more critically a son trying to correct his fathers career ending error. I truly believe the latter is more the driving force myself.

Not so sure about the last point.

At the same time I would shed no tears to see Sadam out of this world.

I don't think anyone would disagree. It's just the Americans' breathtaking hypocrisy - having basically created and propped up the man while he was doing their bidding!

But seriously a neutral name would have helped. Call it a ?Jonno?

Mmmm. I can just see the EUL - Economic Union of Leicester - being formed with the J**** as its currency. Talk about a power on the world stage.

Poor old Finbar ? a clever word play about Austria and Tanerlin missed it in the translation.

Ah well, it's his second language, after all! Besides, I'm used to script editors - who claim English as their first language - missing even my most heavy-handed metaphors.

[Havak]

Goodoh! I've got 50 Civ Gold saying the ABs will win, you've got the same saying they won't. What could be simpler?

Nothing at all. Though taking your money will be painful.

Nice to see it in writing though.

It’s not the first time I’ve committed it to writing.

It is still possible for me to also say that based on the last four games they have played that no test playing nation in the world has done as well as England. We are, on those terms, number one.

Good thing too and about bloody time. It was lonely at the top.

I thought you were Italian?

A-ha! You fell for my incredibly well planned trap!

As you are now aware there’s no need for elaborate planning. Front row remember. Bull at a gate.

Not so sure about the last point.

Don’t underestimate familial obligation. George Junior seems to be George senior writ small.

It's just the Americans' breathtaking hypocrisy - having basically created and propped up the man while he was doing their bidding!

All nations indulge in political expediency. Not many as visibly as the US certainly – I do take your point.

Talk about a power on the world stage.

Well, and forgive me for returning to a theme here, with the Crusaders running away from the fixture they were supposed to have with us (in true AB style?) Tigers are pretty much the World power at club level?

European Champions has a much nicer ring to it that Super 12 Champions which, lets face it sounds rather League like? They tend to drop the word ‘Super’ into everything in a vain attempt to convince people it is?

Ah well, it's his second language, after all!

He does superbly well as does LdiCesare. And it was a subtle one. I just thought you should know someone picked it.

So is it true – are all script editors really failed writers?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
It is important I suppose. With Tony rushing to become head of the 51st State.

It could be funny to hear the "Continental" Americans calling you the "Colony"...

I’m not daft – I see it for what it is, a twofold strategy of securing a huge oil reserve for US use and even more critically a son trying to correct his fathers career ending error. I truly believe the latter is more the driving force myself.

In my opinion feelings have nothing to do with politics.

At the same time I would shed no tears to see Sadam out of this world.

This is true for all the dictators and for all the people exploiting the misery and ignorance of the human beings all around the world.

I should have been clearer that I don’t give a monkies which of the Welsh or AB sides of the Seventies try to lay claim to that title. The England side of this century has a far better claim to that honourific.

Win the World Cup (remember you won't as France will win it) and I will perhaps consider about supporting your claim.

I stand corrected. Now could you answer the point on comparative compliance between our countries please?

NO!

Again I can’t see us ever voluntarily giving any exemptions up. Stubborness maybe?

In my opinion this is actually the problem, as far ast the EC is concerned the UK would like "le beurre et l'argent du beurre" (the butter and the money of the butter) and perhaps even f**** with the dairywoman.

[QUOTE]You make good points. I do think it has wider problems though. Calling it the Euro was a fatal one. You could have had the UK in from the start had it been called for example “sterling”. Yes my countrymen are that superficial. But seriously a neutral name would have helped. Call it a “Jonno” or a “Magne” and it would have been fine – but ‘Euro’ automatically triggers the Brit isolationist reflex I am afraid.[/I]

An isolationist reflex that has been carefully tended and encouraged by your politicians for almost 50 years now, a kind of brainwash. The UK will come back to the EC when your country will no more have the means to pay for its isolationist policy, a policy which is doomed to failure in my own opinion.

I’m not an economist – but I also don’t understand how the weaker economies contribute anything useful to the Euro? Places like Ireland and Portugal that is?

I am not an economist myself but one of the goals of the EC is to pull them up, every member will benefit from the growth and the modernization of the weaker economies. Europe as a whole as the potential to become the greatest market in the world and we have the opportunity to shape a new superpower that will help create a new balance of power that is IMHO much needed. Moreover, united economies would allow us to be much less dependant from the USA and I hope one day our childrens will no more catch Influenza because Georges W. Bush the XIVth has sneezed.

The goal of the EC is no more economical only (it is no more called EEC), it is also political and strive to reach goals far beyond the creation of a single market though we must admit the economical aspect is fundamental as it will give the EC the mean to achieve the expected results.

London, Paris and Vienna still are beacons. The combined population of the UK and France for example makes a number even the US cannot ignore when combined. And there I have accidentally hit on the strength of the EU have I not?

Exactly, this is the political aspect I was writing about earlier in this post.

We still have the Shetland Isles.

I prefer to think of it that we both felt we would be the best landlord for the other?

I am shivering at the idea of being ruled by a Monarchy.

It’s worth pointing out that militarily we have been rock solid allies for over a hundred years now (scary isn’t it?)

And it is a good thing as we would not be able to achieve anything in a house divided.

Here I disagree. I see no evidence at all that France and Germany are acting out of the goodness of their hearts inside the EC. And yes it sucks that the US say jump and the world says how high – but the big dog rules the pack, the world has always been that way?

Of course Germany and France are furthering their own interests and we would be fools to oppose the USA without any interest in acting this way but I sincerely believe this is also for the best of the whole EC.

Poor old Finbar – a clever word play about Austria and Tamerlin missed it in the translation.

I have missed it, I can't say the countrary.

[Frozzy]

My Chiefs

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Nothing at all. Though taking your money will be painful.

The spooky thing, I've just realised, is that I'm going to have to make a painful choice between heart and pocket when lending my support during the WRC!

It?s not the first time I?ve committed it to writing.

I know it's not. Just consider it part of your therapy.

It is still possible for me to also say that based on the last four games they have played that no test playing nation in the world has done as well as England. We are, on those terms, number one.

Yes, in the same way that McDonalds is the best foodstuff in the world because it's the most consumed. I say again - lies, damned lies and statistics!

I thought you were Italian?

If only! I'm utterly convinced that the safest place in the world to be when terrorists are releasing poison gas and flying planes into tall buildings is ensconced in a wee Umbrian hill town.

Don?t underestimate familial obligation. George Junior seems to be George senior writ small.

I don't underestimate it. This time, though, I think it's the Cheneys and Rumsfelds, et al, who are in the driving seat. Witless is just the mouthpiece, and not a patch on his old man in terms of nouse. Apart from the obvious attraction of Iraq's oil, there are billions and billions to be made by American companies out of the "rebuilding" of post-war Iraq.

There was a nice article in this morning's paper outlining Cheney's activities post-Desert Storm. Shortly after it ended, he quit the Administration to head the oil corporation that, lo and behold, secured many of the contracts to resurrect those oil businesses that Saddam destroyed in the final days of the war.

Thus I think the Americans want to invade Iraq for a whole multitude of reasons. Finishing last time's unfinished job is one of them, for sure, but installing a US-friendly government in the region (unlike, for example, the Saudi relationship which is one of expediency); unfettered access to the oil; the business opportunities; and so on, are higher up the list.

The tragic thing about the whole exercise, though, is that the Americans have learned absolutely nothing from even their most recent exercise in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is now, again, largely a lawless place - as it was pre-Russian invasion - with a token American presence effectively acting as bodyguard to an American-appointed leader while the real power lies with the various warlords. Well done, America. Boot out the Taliban and leave the place ripe for picking by the next fundamentalist group.

Wiping out an existing regime is one thing, but replacing it with something else is another very different thing in countries where the politics aren't black and white, where tribalism is the way, where factionalism is the way, and where alliances are temporary in the extreme. It's this breathtaking arrogance that the Americans think something resembling the only political system they know will suddenly take root and prosper in lands where such systems have never prospered and never will.

It's exactly the sort of arrogance that led to a couple of jumbos being flown into the WTC and the American government will not - can not - learn.

He does superbly well as does LdiCesare. And it was a subtle one. I just thought you should know someone picked it.

Thanks! Some of them trip off the (as it were) tongue, some i actually craft.

So is it true ? are all script editors really failed writers?

Interesting topic, this one. Some are, some aren't. The thing is, while writing and script editing are very closely related, they are, in fact, entirely different disciplines. Some of the best script editors can't write to save themselves. Some very good writers make very good script editors. Some very good writers make appalling script editors. The mark of a good script editor is when he or she does what's required, but - and this is the crucial part - the work is invisible. In other words, the best script editors amend only what needs to be amended, but, in relation to the writer's work, seamlessly. It means the amendments are not only sympathetic to the writer's overall intentions but also sympathetic to the writer's style. The mark of a bad script editor is the imposition of the editor's own style on the writer's work.

I both write and script edit. Believe me, when editing, it takes an enormous amount of discipline to honour the writer's style. It's very easy - and much quicker - simply to amend in the way that I would have written it. And that's the trap that has to be avoided.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy
My Chiefs

Mmmm. They had their chance. The Blues look scarily good, though. That Fijian winger - Rupeni Caucau????? - is dynamite.

[Frozzy]

I guess... but to rub it in some people had to vandalise the Chiefs logo!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=1776354#post1776354