GM seeds - who benefits?

[chequita guevara]

Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by CerberusIV
The point that struck me was the suggestion that seeds could be modified so that the resulting plant would not produce further seeds. one way of stopping GM plants spreading but great for the bio-tech companies turnover.

This is called terminator technology, and is already widely used for GM seeds. The whole purpose of GM technology is to further consolidate the agro-market by agro-companies. Among the first things these companies did was to buy up all the seed houses and stop selling seeds that can reproduce, forcing farmers to buy terminator GM seeds. These costs more, and are also so productive that the price of the crop drops to the point that independent farmers are going out of business in droves.

[orange]

This certainly won't help world hunger. We can start helping world hunger by using those crops that we burn instead.

I can't see how this would do anything, if used for the purposes of creating more food, except make the price value of these grains fall drastically. Can't imagine many companies would want that...

[Jon Miller]

at sometime we deffinintely will need GM (although it is true that we have enough food right now, which means the anti-baby crowd is stupid)

I think that GM done right is great, I just don't always trust the corps who currently control it and the governemnt

Jon Miller

[chequita guevara]

We produce more than enough food to meet our needs right now. If we stopped feeding food animals grain and let them eat grass and bugs instead, there'd be even more food avaialble (though less meat--but meat's a luxery, not a necessity).

The world human population is expected to level off at nine billion people, and then it will start falling if current birth rate trends continue.

GM FOODS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FEEDING THE WORLD. THEY ARE ONLY ABOUT FEEDING THE WALLETS OF AGRO-BUSINESS.

There is a good use to which GM foods could be put, reducing the total amount of crop area and returning large areas back to natural habitat. That's not gonna happen, however.

orange, if you're a grain buyer, you want prices to go down. Large producers also continue to profit, but lowered prices drive their smaller competiors out of business. Their farms can then be picked up for a song. It's all about consolidation.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We produce more than enough food to meet our needs right now. If we stopped feeding food animals grain and let them eat grass and bugs instead, there'd be even more food avaialble (though less meat--but meat's a luxery, not a necessity).

How do you reduce meat consumption to free up the grain???

The way the market does it - shrtages drive up grain prices unit meat becomes too expensive - that will work, but meanwhile high grain prices WILL mean hunger.

Only alternatives - 1. Some policy intervention - rationing, a meat tax, whatever
2. Convince everyone to reduce meat consumption voluntarily

But with growing incomes in "middle income" countries demand for meat is growing, not shrinking. Meat is not necessity, but its not a "luxury" like some items. Its a convenience, since vegetarian complete proteins tend to be more time consuming to prepare. And higher incomes tend to drive toward convenience.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Among the first things these companies did was to buy up all the seed houses and stop selling seeds that can reproduce, forcing farmers to buy terminator GM seeds. These costs more, and are also so productive that the price of the crop drops to the point that independent farmers are going out of business in droves.

IOs the seed business that hard to enter??? If there is demand by farmers for traditional seeds it would seem to be profitable produce them, and desirable to enter the biz, unless there are major barriers to entry.

More likely the demand is for GM seeds because they are more productive, as you point out.

Do GM seeds add to the productivity of large and corp farms more than the productivity of iindependent farmers??? (or perhaps price breaks to large purchasers?) Interesting if so. If not, they will not tend to drive independent farmers out of biz - they may go out of biz for other reasons.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Azazel

what do you mean by that? that the GM crop spreads into the enviroment? or that the genes spread into the enviroment?

it has to be the genes, most domesticated crops cant survive in the wild.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Is the seed business that hard to enter???

Surprisingly, yes. Why, cuz you need a source of seeds . . . which as I already pointed out, have been monopolized by companies that want farmers to use different products. It's not like the seed companies are gonna sell you the seeds that would put them out of business.

BTW, an easy way to stop grain from going towards meat would simply be to mandate that animals can't be fed grain. This, however, would cause the price of grain to collapse, since it's major market would vanish (more grain goes to feeding animals than humans). It would probably also kill the meat market, as grass feed meat isn't very flavorful.

My point isn't that we should do this, simply that we produce enough food to feed the world, even at nine billion high water mark, without increasing the amount of land being farmed or introducing new crop technologies.

[Ramo]

About damn time. Good to see this happening.

Unfortunately, the US probably won't be on board.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by chegitz guevara .

My point isn't that we [i[should[/i] do this, simply that we produce enough food to feed the world, even at nine billion high water mark, without increasing the amount of land being farmed or introducing new crop technologies.

If we cant or wont do it (actions to reduce meat consumption, then thatfact (availability of enough food) is a purely academic. People could still go hungry. And GM would have benefits in redcuing hunger.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Surprisingly, yes. Why, cuz you need a source of seeds . . . which as I already pointed out, have been monopolized by companies that want farmers to use different products. It's not like the seed companies are gonna sell you the seeds that would put them out of business.

Theyve completely cornered the market in non-GM seeds??? None are availble???? Couldnt one import non-GM seeds from Europe??? I find the above assertion difficult to beleive, it will require some research.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by lord of the mark
And GM would have benefits in reducing hunger.

Hunger isn't a production problem, it's a distribution problem. GM will change it, but only by making it worse, conentrating production into fewer hands. Remember, people starve not because they can't produce food, but because they can't buy it. Free food provided by 1st world countries is often stolen by armies or armed bands of thugs either to be used by themselves, sold for currency or simply to deny it to the group who which it was intended. GM won't fix any of this.

[Gibsie]

What about GM rice in countries like China to reduce vitamin A deficiency?

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GM seeds - who benefits?

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Theyve completely cornered the market in non-GM seeds??? None are availble???? Couldnt one import non-GM seeds from Europe???

From what I've read, all the major seed houses have been purchased by companies like Monsanto, ADM, etc. I don't know about Europe. I suspect that importing seed from Europe would be prohibitively expensive for American farmers. I don't how much it would cost to import enough seed to start a seed company, but I suspect a lot, since you won't recoup your cost for at least a year (as you'd have to plant it and harvest it in order to make more seed for selling--otherwise you're just a middle man for European seed banks).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Gibsie
What about GM rice in countries like China to reduce vitamin A deficiency?

What about it? This one solitary example of GM technology which has been put into the public domain doesn't mitigate the effects on the agriculture market that GM technology produces elsewhere.