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  • #76
    Originally posted by Ned
    Which is WHY the article is seriously, seriously FLAWED in basic concept.
    Until you can explain to me why Iraq is less rational than the USSR I fail to see why a containment strategy will not work.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Garth Vader
      Wasn't it US policy during the Cold War to nuke the Soviets even if they attacked Europe conventionally? Or if they had tried to take the Mid East conventionally?
      IIRC, the policy was to start with battlefield nukes only in the European theater and then if that failed to get them to turn back ratchet up the pressure from there.
      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

      Comment


      • #78
        Until you can explain to me why Iraq is less rational than the USSR I fail to see why a containment strategy will not work.


        Saddam, while still rational, is a cornered animal right now. There is no telling what might happen in that situation.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #79
          Who's putting him in the corner?
          "When all else fails, a pigheaded refusal to look facts in the face will see us through." -- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DinoDoc

            You maybe thinking of Kenneth Waltz with the "old man Walt of realism" comment. However, Stephen Walt is the one at Harvard.
            That's what I thought..I took Stephen's Walt's last class at Chicago, "War and the Modern State", before those rich Harvard Bastards took him from us

            Ned:
            The IAEA inpsectors in their monday report reported that they have no evidence of a clandestine Iraqi nuclear program after a month of investigating all the sites that the Bushies asked them to search. They investigated the "aluminium pipes" and came to the conclusion that the Iraqi story, that they were using them to make conventional weapons (whch they should in theory be doing either) and not to enrich uranium, as the Admin. keeps claiming. Bush may claim that Iraq is not revealing all its Bio_chem agents but the admins. argument over nukes looks very thin indeed. So I would not worry much about a Isralei reaction to a no longer operational program.

            And as Dino said: someone gives us a good theoretical argument about why Saddam can't be dettered, and Uh Clem put it very well in his response to Imran's argument, if one can call it that.
            If you don't like reality, change it! me
            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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            • #81
              Edit: Double Post
              Last edited by GePap; January 31, 2003, 16:01.
              If you don't like reality, change it! me
              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Sava


                [retarded conservative rant]
                Well, I don't care if Osama wants us to attack Iraq. We can't be concerned about what the terrorists want, because if we do, the terrorists have won!
                [/retarded conservative rant]

                ...meanwhile the UN has passed a condemnation on Sava for genocide in Strawmania.
                |"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
                | thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5 |

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by GePap
                  That's what I thought..I took Stephen's Walt's last class at Chicago, "War and the Modern State", before those rich Harvard Bastards took him from us
                  I had forgotten that you were from the U of Chicago. Have you ever taken any classes with Mearsheimer? I've just got done reading what I assume to be his most recent book.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Who's putting him in the corner?


                    He put himself in the corner and made himself a pariah.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I never took one of Mearshimer's classes: I had him as a one day substitute for a class by Bob Pape, and I have gone to several talks by him, and spoken with him a little at pol Sci events in Chicago. I am not fully a realist thinker, but mix realist theory with constructivist theory, a little more then like Alexander Wendt. I haven't read his newest book.
                      If you don't like reality, change it! me
                      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        GePap, Ah ha! So that explains what has been happening. We are telling the inspectors where to look. The Iraqi's clean it up (we have photos) and then the inspectors arrive.

                        The mole is in the US state department!
                        http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                        • #87
                          DinoDoc, et al., our policy in Europe was that an attack on Europe was an attack on the US. Our doctrine called for massive retailation - which probably meant progressive retaliation until the Soviets surrendered.

                          But it also meant that we would start a nuclear war if the Soviets attacked in Europe and we knew that the US would likely be hit with nukes.

                          Now, Europe may have been worth New York, Washington, Chicago and LA.

                          But is Iran? Is Saudi Arabia? Is Kuwait. Is Syria. Etc.

                          You bet your bottom dollar they are not worth it. You will never see an American administration sign up for such a containment theory.

                          Would France or the UK step in for us?

                          I doubt it.

                          It won't work, not so much because Saddam is unstable, but because the American people will never agree to it.
                          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                          • #88
                            How about a mole in the inspection team itself?
                            urgh.NSFW

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Azazel
                              How about a mole in the inspection team itself?
                              It depends on whether the only sites cleared are the one's we give the inspectors. This is why I reacted to GePap's suggestion that even with our suggestions of where to look, the inspectors have come up with a dry hole. The mole, assumed to be in the UN team, could be in the US state department.
                              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                              • #90
                                I bet it's Donald Rumsfeld! He's had dealings with Saddam before. You can't trust anyone. Who knows how many others he recruited into the pay of the Iraqis?

                                Stalin would be proud.

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