Early thread on State of the Union address

[Dauphin]

I don't know how the US taxation system works but I don't see how there is double taxation. Can someone explain how the tax system works such that a taxed dividend gives less money than a taxed employee's income.

In the UK there is no net difference in being paid a dividend or being paid a salary for those in the higher income (+$50,000) brackets.

Edit - I'll start a seperate thread on it.

[Garth Vader]

I listened to the speech on the way home. Bush seemed very subdued. Only when he got to Iraq did he become forceful.


That was forceful? I only saw the last 10 minutes and it was tough to listen to. He had no emotion in his voice and no expression in his face. Although he did smirk twice.

It could have been a better speech if given by somebody who knows how. How am I supposed to believe him if it sounds like he doesn't even believe himself.

Maybe I have been spoiled from watching President Bartlett give speeches

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

I wonder if you realize how much stock is held by retirement plans.

yeah but to the extent its in tax exempt retirement plans (pension plans, 401 ks, etc) the beneificiaries dont save one cent from Bush's plan since it exempts dividend income from personal taxation(which isnt paid on a 401k anyway), but it keeps being taxed at the corporate level. Now if he had left personal taxation of dividends, but allowed corporations to deduct dividends that would have been different.

Why didnt he do that
1. Giving a break to individuals sounds more "populist" than giving one to corporations
2. Giving the break to individuals concentrates the savings on the folks in the highest brackets, and gives nothing to the 401k's, pensions, etc.

[Sava]

The whole speech was normal Republican crap... the only part that I found interesting was the part about fuel cell technology. In the markets so far today, a lot of fuel cell companies are seeing 10-15 percent gains.

Acts of Hypocrisy in speech:
1. Getting medicine to Africa.... Bush failed to mention how the Republicans killed the generic drug plan which would have provided many more millions with the AIDS drugs they need at significantly less cost.

2. Spurring the economy.... the obvious is the whole tax cut for the rich, but I noticed that Bush said overall, he's going to increase spending by 400 billion while giving a 670 billion tax cut. That's nice, so in the next year the national budget deficit will increase about 3 billion dollars a day on top of the already monumental deficit we already have. Deficit spending on this scale hurts the economy, it doesn't help it. IIRC, the government is paying 50 billion a year in just interest on the deficit.

3. Helping the environment.... sure relaxing laws against pollution, mining, and logging is a good way to show that you're a conservationist. And Bush's history as governor and as president has shown that the so called 70% reduction in pollution output is a complete lie.

The whole clapping and standing ovation thing was really terrible. Every sentence the whole Republican Congress stood up. It's bad enough the Republican agenda as a whole is immoral, it's also detrimental to the American economy as well as the rest of the world's opinion of us; and I'm not even talking about Iraq...but on top of that, those puds stand up and clap at their idiotic policies.

Bush is a barfbag, I'm only happy that there wasn't a terrorist attack in Washington. Armageddon would truly be upon us if Ashcroft (the absent cabinet member in case of disaster) was president.

[chairmanmeow]

Originally posted by Sava

Bush is a barfbag, I'm only happy that there wasn't a terrorist attack in Washington. Armageddon would truly be upon us if Ashcroft (the absent cabinet member in case of disaster) was president.

The only thing worse than that would be if Bush, Cheney, and Dennis Hastert had for some reason been killed in 2001. In that case, Strom Thurmond, at that time the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, would have become president. That would be hell...