Official Israeli Elections Thread

[Eli]

Maybe mafdal too but not too likely mafday and shinuy.

Why not? The Mafdalniks work, pay taxes and serve in the army. The perfect religious men as far as Shinui is concerned.

[Edan]

Any chance Mitzna will either reconsider joining a coalition, or that he'll be dropped and replaced by someone who is?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Edan
Any chance Mitzna will either reconsider joining a coalition, or that he'll be dropped and replaced by someone who is?

Lapid is quoted as saying that would happen (its clearly what he wants, and possibly what Sharon wants) Mitzna's point, IIUC is that Labor has declined because its Likud number 2, and needs to show an alternative. The heavy losses labor sustainted, and the fact that they seemed to all go to shinui and none to Meretz, would seem to make it hard to sustain this argument. And there will be oressure that Labor should put the country ahead of the party = there will even be pressure on Mitzna from abroad, from the Bush admin, from the Euros, from the socialist international (??) and probably also from American Jews - there are lots of people who dont want a narrow right wing govt, and who would wish luck to a Likud-shinui-labor govt. OTOH Mitzna can respond that as long as Arafat is there, and Sharon is there, there will be no peace anyway, and Labor is best watching a narrow govt flounder, and coming back in a couple of years with clean hands.

[Shi Huangdi]

Hmmm... What are the chance of a nightmare scenario, that is Likud+Religious+Nat. Union?

[Sirotnikov]

Most of Avoda leadership doesn't want to go to unity right now.


A good bunch of Avoda and Meretz party don't get that the Israelis are saying NO to them.

They think it's got to do with sitting with Sharon or got to do with the current crisis or something.


Most of the Israeli public does not trust the current Palestinian leadership and wants a tough hand be used against them. Israel says NO to the Tunissia PLO leadership. Israel says NO to talking with terrorists. Israel says NO to the dead Oslo accords.


Eli - as far as Shinui is concerned - you're completely buying into the propoganda of Avoda.

Shinui is a liberal centrist party. It's very hard for Israelis to understand since most Israelis are social democrats, and they only see a clear cut - love them or hate them policy.

The Sharon strategy is to step slowly , without stepping on american toes, towards a small Palestinian autonomy, and complete freedom for Israel to defend itself.


And Yes - Mafdal is , for me, and for Shinui, the Perfect religious party.

Infact, if not Shinui, and if Mafdal would have been just a tad less zealous, I might just have voted for them.

National Union are fine - but they are stupid. A far right can never present themselves as such. They must hide in a sheep's clothes, and implement thier policies in strategies - not immediate moves.

Israelis want everything immediately, when long term strategies are key.

Why did we get peace with Egypt and Jordan? Long term strategies. We denied and denied and denied and crushed their influence, until they decided they are better off in peace.

[Sirotnikov]

CNN ARE STUPID

I just read their online article about the Israeli elections and there are SO MANY errors!!!!!!

They got all the wrong numbers for every official figure.
They mixed up all the rightwing parties.

They are just ****ing stupid.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Most of the Israeli public does not trust the current Palestinian leadership and wants a tough hand be used against them. Israel says NO to the Tunissia PLO leadership. Israel says NO to talking with terrorists. Israel says NO to the dead Oslo accords.

No to the entire Tunisia leadership, or just to Arafat himself??? Mitzna still indicated he'd talk to Arafat, which seems to put him to the left of Bush, hardly tenable in Israel. But US policy is NOT against talking with say Abu Mazen - if Arafat is gone (or softer version, pushed upstairs to figurehead presidency) And there is plenty of room between Taba or even Camp David 2 and latest Sharon map - thats the diplomatic space Bush will pursue post Iraq, and could have been labors political space if Mitzna had not taken them quite so far to the left - could it end up being Shinui's political space - making them perhaps the long term second party in Israel, displacing Labor???

What keeps a Fuad in Labor and out of Shinui??? Anti-sephardi bigotry in Shinui? (but isnt that in Labor also?) Economics? but it has been said that doesnt matter in Israel now. Nostalgia for the old Ben Gurion/Rabin strategy of alliance with the Haredim??? Is that realistic anymore?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

CNN ARE STUPID

I just read their online article about the Israeli elections and there are SO MANY errors!!!!!!

They got all the wrong numbers for every official figure.
They mixed up all the rightwing parties.

They are just ****ing stupid.

Wolf Blitzer call your office!!!!

[Sirotnikov]

a. avoda don't wanna spoil their ties to religious groups
b. fuad supposedly left the govt. over the budget. he can't go back if it stays the same

[Wernazuma III]

Congratulations to Israel for having opted for a continued period of violence, terror, supression, exploitation and no chance for improvement. When will you learn that Sharon is your worst enemy right after Hamas?

[Sirotnikov]

"Congratulations britain. When will you learn that Churchil is your worst enemy right after Hitler"

--


When will you learn that Israel has everything to lose if the terror continues unanswered. When will you learn that Israel has everything to lose if it begins negociating under fire. When will you learn that Israel has everything to lose if it begins giving away territory with no cessation of terror and end of conflict.

Oslo is dead. Arafat used it as a trojan horse. Accept it. Deal with it.

[Sirotnikov]

had a long post deleted by ie bug.

blah blah.


sharon's achievements:

1) arafat and gang delegtimized
2) israel has freedom to act in the territories and fight terrorism
3) palestinians beig to realize that israel won't go away or cave in
4) israeli american relations great
5) palestinian state reduced to temporary autonomy and reform is imminent.

[Harel]

My friends, let us mourn for Israel, for it's people are stupid and directionless, prefering violance, corruption and bankruptcy. We are stupid and foolish, and I am for one am very happy I'm not going to stay in this blasted country for long.

Sickening. Anyone who votes for Ariel Sharon is an idiot and should be flogged.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
had a long post deleted by ie bug.

blah blah.


sharon's achievements:

1) arafat and gang delegtimized
2) israel has freedom to act in the territories and fight terrorism
3) palestinians beig to realize that israel won't go away or cave in
4) israeli american relations great
5) palestinian state reduced to temporary autonomy and reform is imminent.

1, 2, and 4 are not in reconcilable with 5. To take advantage of momentum of 3 will require that 5 is at most an openign bargianing position, not the end point. thats what i mean about mitzna too far to the left and sharon too far to the right. Mitzna would throw away 1 by negotiatiing with Arafat, when 4 has him on the run. Sharon will (or will he???) throw away 1-4, especially 4, on the belief that he can get 5 and give the Pals nothing more. The test for Sharon will come AFTER arafat is gone - the US will have much higher expectations for progress then - if Sharon is incapable of going beyond 5, expect a major crises, and Mitzna and Avodah to make a comeback.

That is why the kind of coalition Sharon tries to form now is so crucial.

[Eli]

Everyone will be much happier if Arafat suddenly dies of old age or some illness.
2 and a half years of Intifada and the Shabak/Mossad/whatever couldnt arrange some non noticeable poison?