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Originally posted by mindseye
Really? That's hilarious!
The last Bond film was about North Korea.
Really? That's hilarious!
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If you want to talk about hilarious, you should look at the protests the movie spawned in South Korea.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio -
It's to bad the red Chinese won't use their economic aid to force the North Koreans into behaving like normal intelligent people.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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They seem to be intelligent, just they have a different agenda than the USA.Originally posted by Oerdin
It's to bad the red Chinese won't use their economic aid to force the North Koreans into behaving like normal intelligent people.(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."Comment
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Running your country into the ground and starving your own people to death doesn't count as intelligent in my book.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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10 years ago? I am not sure if he has been in power for that long.Originally posted by DanS
The time for special economic regions is loooooong past. He could have tried it 10 years ago.
No, yet DPRK has a lot more people. Yes, something could be done about it, but the drain is significant. I should know, Hong Kong was the First Port of Asylum for Vietnamese boat people. [Dreadful Brits] Another thing is, unless ROK will take all of them unconditionally, otherwise, a million or two refugees waiting for aid is a heavy burden.Originally posted by DanS
Re the repurcussions to China of mass migration, this is all true to a point. But it would give a certain amount of control to the situation. The repurcussions could be foreseen and planned for, just as they were in Afghanistan for a similar number of refugees. Does this part of China have less infrastructure than Afghanistan?
I think the Sunshine Policy is right. You need to contact the North Koreans, not put them in isolation like the US has been doing. Actually they just need food and fuel and trading partners.Originally posted by DanS
Right now, nobody has control over the situation. We don't even know if Kim Jong Il has a realistic end-game. He might be signing checks that nobody's ass can ever cash. This is a much more dangerous situation than a couple of million refugees well provisioned for.(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."Comment
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Hm, Containment Policy surely didn't help much.Originally posted by Oerdin
Running your country into the ground and starving your own people to death doesn't count as intelligent in my book.(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."Comment
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No, yet DPRK has a lot more people.
No it doesn't. Afghanistan has about 6 million people more than DPRK.
More, later today.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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No one doubts the intelligence of the North Koreans. It's the person at the top they have doubts about though.Originally posted by Urban Ranger
They seem to be intelligent,
Hm, Containment Policy surely didn't help much.
What does that have to do with them wasting money on a nuke program that only serves to damage relations with the people giving them aid and does nothing to signifigantly increase thier security?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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From the indications, it looked like Kim and the Chinese leadership both wanted special economic zones set up so that NK could imitate China's own (socialist) entry into capitalism.
The erratic nature of NK diplomacy may be the result of political infighting. It seems that Kim Jong Il himself is certainly open to economic reforms, but that the cadre of generals that benefit from military extremism are opposed.
On a lighter note, has anybody seen the list of similarities between George Bush Jnr. and Comrade Kim Jnr.? Makes for entertaining reading..."lol internet" ~ AAHZComment
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No, the people at the top aren't unintelligent, just self-serving. They don't really feel the urgency of anything because they're the ones living in cushy palaces and watching Bond movies.Originally posted by DinoDoc
No one doubts the intelligence of the North Koreans. It's the person at the top they have doubts about though.
Hm, Containment Policy surely didn't help much.
What does that have to do with them wasting money on a nuke program that only serves to damage relations with the people giving them aid and does nothing to signifigantly increase thier security?
As for the nuke program - I personally think that revealing it at the height of the Iraq crisis was a brilliant touch.Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroffComment
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ReallY? It'd be great if you could give some details.Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
The erratic nature of NK diplomacy may be the result of political infighting. It seems that Kim Jong Il himself is certainly open to economic reforms, but that the cadre of generals that benefit from military extremism are opposed.Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroffComment
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"Actually they just need food and fuel and trading partners."
And why should we care? What do we get in return for this?
The NK government is a bunch of nutfvcks and has no legitimacy as far as I'm concerned. They couldn't spend our money effectively, and I'm loathe to put good money after bad.
It's time for freedom for the people of NK. We should demand it!
I think the Sunshine Policy is right.
It appears to be morphing into an abomination, where SK is supporting a hideous regime in return for NK not committing suicide.
All true negotiations have a walk away point for each side. What the Sunshine Policy is turning into--no walk away point for SK--takes away support for negotiations, by giving NK a distorted dataset for what the SK and the world community are willing to accept. This causes highly dangerous situations, in that NK thinks it can shoot for the moon and get it.
(As an aside, that's precisely why the Palestinian Authority did the correct thing in walking away from Camp David. In the long-term, the PA effectively communicated the parameters of an acceptable deal.)
I was all for the Sunshine Policy a couple of years ago, given that I thought it was a very temporary thing designed to get the ball rolling.
The erratic nature of NK diplomacy may be the result of political infighting.
Ali: It could be. I don't think we have a good handle on the internal politics of NK, at least publically here in the West.Last edited by DanS; January 29, 2003, 15:45.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Would you prefer the term short sighted and dangerously ignorant when it comes to insuring the survival of thier regime, if calling them stupid strikes you as wrong. They don't have the masses of people to safely piss away in famines that China does. Given that they are likely already invulnerable to a conventional attack by the US, the security and survival of thier regime would be better served if the resources of thier state were directed toward combating the threat posed by the famine instead of nukes.Originally posted by ranskaldan
No, the people at the top aren't unintelligent, just self-serving.
I personally think that revealing it at the height of the Iraq crisis was a brilliant touch.
I would never dream of calling Kim completely irrational given how long he has managed to stay in power.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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To close the loop, Kim Jong Il came into power in 1994, 9 years ago, as UR points out.Last edited by DanS; January 30, 2003, 12:10.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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DanS: Afghanistan does not have 10 million more people than North Korea: givent he horrid conditions in both, population growth in both has been small, and even if you add population loss due to famine, in 1993 Afghnaistan had 16 million and NK 22. That NK lost so many to famine without collapsing then is difficult ot believe.
As for acting unprinciplaly: if the US starts letting in economic refugees form elsewhere, like Haiti, then perhaps you can call attempts by the Chinese to stop such a similar situation for themselves unprincipaled. Its easy to call for 'princiled" action when you would reap only benefits form it, and pay 0 for the costs.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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