Revelation. Do You Even Remember the Gulf War ?

[Sava]

I was 11, yes I remember it.

[SlowwHand]

Amin was pond scum. But the outcry would still have been much more intense than what people are saying here about Iraq.

I mean, you can gas people quicker, and with more efficiency, than you can eat them.

[Gatekeeper]

The simple fact is this: The United States cannot do a damn thing w/o being *screamed* at by some offended party or another. The cacophony gets so intense at times that you just wanna find a quiet corner, plug your ears and ignore the howling ... but it's impossible to do.

It's something every nation that's ever been a "great" power has had to face, but the modern world makes it that much more vicious. I can only imagine what it would've been like had instaneous communication among the masses (and widespread democracy) been available centuries in the past.

Gatekeeper

[Hueij]

a tape I had ready to record CNN.

Hehe, you have Bernard Shaw's live report from underneath a table in a hotelroom in downtown Bagdad? That's pure gold I was lucky to see that live on CNN because we just got back from the pub and decided to have one last beer before going to bed.

But seriously, about PH's Idi Amin argument. This is exactly why many people (myself included) are against the US going alone against Saddam. In the not so very distant part the US set up and/or supported several dictators of the same caliber of Saddam and even now they have very friendly relations with some nasty thugs. It all seems kind of hypocritical to us.

The fact that the US is acting pure selfish on certain things that the rest of the world finds pretty important like Kyoto, the ICC and that anti-personel mine thingy doesn't help either.

[Ramo]

I was 5, my parents are rather apolitical, and I didn't have any personal ties to the war, so I only vaguely remember it...

[cavebear]

Originally posted by Kramerman


one of the most rational posts on the subject of Iraq/Saddam Ive read in a long time. Kudos cavebear

Thank you, Kramerman. There can be humane reasons for war and there can be be inhumane reasons. The rational reasons are for a greater good for people denied freedom.

[cavebear]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
cavebear? Since when have genocidal maniacs ever bothered the US regime unless they were a thorn in their side? Were was the US with Idi Amin or Pol Pot?

Call me cynical, but to go to war there is a deeper motivation than humanitarianism in these cases. And I don't think this is any exception.

The US has labored under the negative experience of the Vietnam War for a long time. It was important to us that we experienced the strictly military victory over Iraq in the first first war and also the moral victory of Afghanistan.

IF it becomes necessary to invade Iraq and cause a governmental change for the benefit of both the Iraqi citizens and the whole region, the US now understands both what it *can* and *should* do.

The *reasons* for war can be argued, but I am certain it is not about "oil" and it is not about "colonialism". We will get all the oil we need whether Iraq provides any or not, and we don't have any interests of controlling remote geographical areas a la British gunboat methods.

What I do hope for is that the UN, with some industrially advanced nations to back it up, will go on a general world-wide campaign of removing local tyrants to encourage freedom whereever possible.

Could we make China free? No. But what if 25 years from now they were the only totalitarian government left? Wouldn't that be a pressure on them? Wouldn't that be a good thing to have achieved so much.

Eventually, all the totalitarian governments will fall. But it takes a start at some place at some time by some people to start the process. If it is the US now, that's fine with me. If someone else soon, that's OK too.

Tyrannies don't collapse on their own easily or quickly; if it takes some outside pressure, I'm for it.

[cavebear]

The US position is modelled after the epigram of Davy Crockett; "Be sure you're right, then go ahead".

[Hueij]

What I do hope for is that the UN, with some industrially advanced nations to back it up, will go on a general world- wide campaign of removing local tyrants to encourage freedom whereever possible.

And that is exactly why I am sceptical about America's motive behind this whole Iraq business. On the one hand it was and still is supporting right-wing dictators and on the other hand it tries to make us believe it is on a crusade to enforce Democracy across the globe. It tastes like double standards to me...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Which Gulf War?

Iraq-Iran was the first Gulf War .

[DinoDoc]

What I do hope for is that the UN, with some industrially advanced nations to back it up, will go on a general world-wide campaign of removing local tyrants to encourage freedom whereever possible.

Ahh, the foolish naivete of youth.

[Kontiki]

Most definitely remember it. One of my most vivid memories was when I first saw the reports of Israel getting hit by the Scuds and thinking "uh oh, the sh1t just hit the fan". In retrospect, though, their restraint (while certainly admirable) seems obvious to me - it really didn't cause that much damage, there were no chemical weapons, and Iraq was already in the process of getting its ass kicked, not to mention the fact that getting involved probably would have shaken up the coalition.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Hueij

What I do hope for is that the UN, with some industrially advanced nations to back it up, will go on a general world- wide campaign of removing local tyrants to encourage freedom whereever possible.

And that is exactly why I am sceptical about America's motive behind this whole Iraq business. On the one hand it was and still is supporting right-wing dictators and on the other hand it tries to make us believe it is on a crusade to enforce Democracy across the globe. It tastes like double standards to me...

Well said
And the answer is included, I think.

[Edan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Which Gulf War?

Iraq-Iran was the first Gulf War .

What, there weren't any wars in the gulf area in the thousands of years before the 1980s? Think big!

[notyoueither]

I was in University (I went late). I remember there was much wailing and knashing of teeth among the people I knew there.

Saddam had the 4th or 5th largest army. It would cost too much to do anything about Kuwait.

The war was about oil.

We (the West) had no right to intrude in regional affairs.

The war was all about American Imperialism (as well as oil).

Not many things change as time goes by.