France Vows To Block UN Resolution on Iraq War

[Az]

Exactly. That's why the french are the least supportive of the war. they've realized that they now will get less part of the oil cake if the US will conquer Iraq. Russia has been VERY quiet, and I suppose that the US will continue to bolster it's relationships with the bears.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Azazel
how does that change... anything really? I am now talking about real motives, not the bull**** that politicians sell to people.

Azazel, I'm not saying the French are any more idealistic about this than the US is, but the French government has the additional motivation that their people are widely against the war, and want them to do something about it. The US government doesn't have that.

If you asked me for an opinion, I'd tell you that popular opinion is the main reason for French and German opposition.

[Az]

I don't think so. They could've started to mould public opinion ages ago, when Bush hinted at first that he wants to take a go at Saddam. they didn't. they've realized that they'd have to pay for being pains in the ass of the US, and started velhemently opposing these actions. There was no public opinion on this before bush's first hint at war on iraq, for the simple reason that this was a non-issue.

[KrazyHorse]

And the Germans? The rest of Europe? Canada?

Russia is one thing. They're a traditional Iraqi ally and do have major investment in Iraq, plus they don't have a good history of listening to public opinion.

But France is symptomatic of a broad opposition to the war in Europe. To ascribe it to French oil money is either shortsighted or disingenuous.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Azazel
I don't think so. They could've started to mould public opinion ages ago, when Bush hinted at first that he wants to take a go at Saddam. they didn't. they've realized that they'd have to pay for being pains in the ass of the US, and started velhemently opposing these actions. There was no public opinion on this before bush's first hint at war on iraq, for the simple reason that this was a non-issue.

?

Public opinion doesn't mold so easily, Azazel. Even the US has tepid support for war, and Europeans are dead set against it.

The French have never been particularly concerned about their relationship with Washington either. They're right in the centre of new Europe, and they're more concerned with that relationship than with the US one.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Azazel
I don't think so. They could've started to mould public opinion ages ago, when Bush hinted at first that he wants to take a go at Saddam. they didn't. they've realized that they'd have to pay for being pains in the ass of the US, and started velhemently opposing these actions. There was no public opinion on this before bush's first hint at war on iraq, for the simple reason that this was a non-issue.

You are saying that the governments of France and Germany should have influenced their citizens so they would encourage war?
Isn't democracy supposed to work the other way around ?

[Az]

good points. I now agree that public does play a part in france's decisions.

[CICSMaster]

Yes, and if France blocks the UN resolution to go to war, GB will counter with a publicity campaign explaining to the American People that the UN is putting them in jepoardy and this will cause the patriotic American's to again support him.

Yet again GB and his minions have manipulated the situation to their advantage. Whoever said that GB was DUMB is sure wrong.

[Az]

You are saying that the governments of France and Germany should have influenced their citizens so they would encourage war?
Isn't democracy supposed to work the other way around ?

what I've meant is that if their ONLY worry was public opinion and not the US encroaching on their oil, they could prep up their own public opinion to support such a thing. But they've opposed it very much, their level of opposition preceded the level of opposition from the european street.

And yes, government can mould public opinion. I see it happen here all the time.

[HershOstropoler]

I find it fascinating that the same pundits who tell us Bush's war is not about oil, also tell us that opposition to the war is all about oil. Even more fascinating that they find people who believe them.

"their level of opposition preceded the level of opposition from the european street."

Not for France, Chirac's initial position was ambiguous. In Germany, both major parties reacted to existing voter sentiment - I can't see how they should have manipulated public sentiment.

[KrazyHorse]

Remember that in Germany Schroeder was forced into his position by the upcoming election. Prior to firming up his position as being against war, he would have lost...

[Maroule]

"their level of opposition preceded the level of opposition from the european street."

Indeed wrong. Chirac rarely has strong feelings on anything. He is following the 80% of people opposing or strongly opposing a war.

[SpencerH]

Maroule,

So whats your opinion about why the French are so opposed to ousting Hussein?

[Chris 62]

I see this thread lives on, but it's really pointless.

Iraq violated the original gulf war ceasefire, that is all the US needs leagally, so France and Germany can posture all they like, it's to no purpose, outside of the usual game they play.

D-day should be about three weeks, then it's adios Saddam, as US forces move in, chased by the French yelling "we are with you amis, we love you!! "

[Bereta_Eder]

Vive la France, as always.
Also glad to see the FrancoGerman alliance as strong as ever. There wouldnt be a EU without them.
I'm sorry for the continouus narrowmindness of the UK though.

Charles de Gaule once said that the UK should never had become a member of the EU. It would be like puting a worm inside an apple he had said.
I hope he was wrong.