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  • #76
    Originally posted by SnowFire
    How is it NOT hypocritical for a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons and hundreds of ICBMs, that also happens to be the only nation ever to use atomic/nuclear weapons to murder civilians, to tell a little pissant desert nation 6000 miles away they can't have a few chemical or nuclear warheads?

    Screw it, you win DF, jack successful.

    Let's play the good old analogy game. Flies over some people's heads, but whatever. Let's say I have a 5-year old son. My grandfather once shot a man with his gun (under questionable circumstances; let's say I believe it was justified, but others might not). Now I happen to own quite a few guns, more than grandaddy ever had. Is it hypocritical for me to not allow my 5-year old have a gun and bring it to his preschool?

    I can't see how the quanity of guns I own right now (or nukes a nation might possess) has a thing to do with the responsibility that another might use it with. Also, what does what a country did in the past- when it was functionally a different country- have to do with anything? Would you say it's hypocritical for an Italian to preach peace and David Floydism, because the Roman Empire once ruled the Mediterranean with an iron fist?
    Just for the sake of argument, do you understand the Non Proliferation Treaty?
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • #77
      Judging from the yankee talk in this thread, America's penis enlargement industry has lots and lots of potential business....

      Seriously though, what is Bush waiting for ? Attack Iraq now, without UN resolution, you goddamn chicken ****!
      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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      • #78
        Originally posted by chegitz guevara
        It's time for a global alliance to stop American agression!
        What now, Che, are you and your fellow travelers uniting with the dictators of the world to attack the US? Are you too advocating that Iraqi and NK soldiers kill your fellow citizens, friends and neighbors by the thousands?

        It is f*cking unbelievable the lengths people will go to protect Saddam Hussein.

        The French must be utterly condemned. Ditto the Germans.
        http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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        • #79
          Judging from the yankee talk in this thread, America's penis enlargement industry has lots and lots of potential business....


          We need bigger penises to compensate for our gigantic balls. Alas, that's a problem Europeans haven't had to worry about for some time now...
          KH FOR OWNER!
          ASHER FOR CEO!!
          GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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          • #80
            Why are you playing handmelon, then ?
            “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Ned
              It is f*cking unbelievable the lengths people will go to protect Saddam Hussein.

              The French must be utterly condemned. Ditto the Germans.
              Protecting Saddam? Now that strawman is even bigger than Dubya's ego.
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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              • #82
                Ned: Er, I think so. What are you getting at?

                DF: I'l make this quick, but I see your point now. Yes, if the USA's stance was "nuclear weapons are eeeeeeevil and should be abolished- starting with you, Saddam" it would be hypocritical. However, we're simply saying that it's bad if more people had them- especially irresponsible leaders like Saddam. Bad mouth the US all you want, we don't torture/starve/etc. our citizens.

                Here's another analogy you're going to take too sweepingly and miss the point of: in a minarchist Floydist system, perhaps one person is mayor and has power in Floydsville. But being a good Floydist, he isn't in favor of creating 1,000 other municipal government positions that have power- and even if he was, he certainly wouldn't want to appoint that crazy commie chegitz to one of them. Is he being hypocritical? Hey, he has power, but he's telling chegitz he can't have any either.
                All syllogisms have three parts.
                Therefore this is not a syllogism.

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                • #83
                  Re: No 2nd Resolution

                  Originally posted by DanS
                  Looks like we aren't going to get a 2nd resolution. It's a shame that the 2nd resolution was ambushed by France and Germany. I guess we'll (and the UK and Hungarians, etc., if they choose) will have to have a coalition of the willing to take this guy down.

                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Jan20.html
                  So. uh...what was the point of the inspections if you didn't care what they found?

                  Was it (gasp) just a cynical ploy based on your faulty assumption that Saddam wouldn't play ball, providing you with a tailor-made excuse?
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

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                  • #84
                    Non-Proliferation Treaty...yeah, that's a good one.

                    Maybe Iraq wants the ability to defend itself from the only Middle Eastern nation that's known to have nuclear weapons, one that has a history of unprovoked air attacks against Iraq. Is it US policy that no Arab nation have a deterrence against this threat?
                    "When all else fails, a pigheaded refusal to look facts in the face will see us through." -- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett

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                    • #85
                      So. uh...what was the point of the inspections if you didn't care what they found?

                      We did care what the inspections found. Except that we think the inspections have limited value in disarming somebody if that government is uncooperative. So the value of inspections is primarily to find out whether the government is going to be cooperative or not.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #86
                        "Seriously though, what is Bush waiting for ? Attack Iraq now, without UN resolution, you goddamn chicken ****!"

                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                        • #87
                          "We did care what the inspections found." - If they find something, Saddam is guilty of hiding it.

                          "Except..." ... if they find nothing, Saddam is guilty of hiding it too well.
                          “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            Originally posted by DanS
                            So. uh...what was the point of the inspections if you didn't care what they found?

                            We did care what the inspections found. Except that we think the inspections have limited value in disarming somebody if that government is uncooperative. So the value of inspections is primarily to find out whether the government is going to be cooperative or not.
                            And how has the government not cooperated? They let UN inspectors everywhere they wanted to go, no? Until you can show that they are witholding things from the inspectors, they aren't in breach of 1441 (?).

                            Right now what the US has is that the Iraqis have 16 empty shells and that they haven't invited the inspectors in for tea.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment

                            • #89
                              Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                              "We did care what the inspections found." - If they find something, Saddam is guilty of hiding it.

                              "Except..." ... if they find nothing, Saddam is guilty of hiding it too well.
                              Exactly.

                              He must have been lying because we know he's got WMD.

                              Well if you know it, show your evidence to UNMOVIC and this entire discussion is moot. Until then, it's an unsupported statement, and no other country is beholden to believe you.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                And how has the government not cooperated?

                                Oh, come on. Don't act like a rube. He wasn't cooperating from square 1, where he gave a declaration that didn't even incorporate what had been found and declared up to that point.

                                Saddam could have used it to come clean and stick it in the eye of the US. But he didn't.
                                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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