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Yeah, but you quote from the bastardized Guiness Book. 
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That I do."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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No surprise that Imran is on the corporation's side.
No suprise that you make idiot arguments simply because a corporation might get hurt somewhere, somehow.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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The Guiness quote is accurate. That is a topic for another thread. I can't understand how such an advanced nation as the US, of which I am a citizen, can incarcerate so many people and yet have the cahonies to call other countries on their human rights records."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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Maybe an understatement, but compared to Enron, it was a news non-issue. And I mean the non-Monica-related part, about the real estate and so forth. It was covered on-and-off for years, but never with the intensity and national furor of Enron.Originally posted by MosesPresley
"Whitewater went on for like 2 days."
I'm sorry after a comment like that, I just cannot take you seriously.Last edited by Goingonit; January 21, 2003, 01:34.I refute it thus!
"Destiny! Destiny! No escaping that for me!"Comment
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Now, now, don't get your panties in a knot.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No surprise that Imran is on the corporation's side.
No suprise that you make idiot arguments simply because a corporation might get hurt somewhere, somehow.
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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I can't understand how such an advanced nation as the US, of which I am a citizen, can incarcerate so many people and yet have the cahonies to call other countries on their human rights records.
How the HELL does detaining people say anything about the country's human rights record? We'd have no problems with other country's detaining a large amount of people if they had a fair trial.
Another example of you being in the forest, but unable to see the trees.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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You don't see anything strange with that figure? Are Americans really so lawless, especially the lower classes?"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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No, I don't see anything strange in that figure. Americans tend to incarcerate more people. Part of that some cultural components (see the violent tendancies of Americans compared to other Western Europeans), and other parts of that is based on some of our laws (especially drug laws... which is half of the prison population).“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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America incarcerates too many people, but it's not a government conspiracy, it's cruddy drug laws, as Imran sort of said.I refute it thus!
"Destiny! Destiny! No escaping that for me!"Comment
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You are correct. The drug war is a large part of that and that is the reason I use that statistic in my quote. The drug war is a war on the lower classes. The lower classes cannot afford good legal counsel and suffer unduly because of it. The three strikes and you are out nonsense is another reason for the high number. I think the drug war could be won through education, decriminalization and treating it as a medical problem.
When you attack the poor and incarcerate them for something that is a medical problem and not a criminal problem, you are violating human rights. Anyway, that is how I see it."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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The drug war is a war on people who use drugs. If people know the consequences, and still use drugs, it's their own damn fault.
And since when is smoking crack a medical problem? It's being dumb and short-sighted.
Not that I think drug laws are positive, but they aren't designed for repression either.I refute it thus!
"Destiny! Destiny! No escaping that for me!"Comment
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Only if you see is as an attack on the lower classes, which it looks like your ideology seems to think it is. I REALLY doubt it was enacted to kick it to the lower classes. Many in the middle class also end up going to jail because of the drug laws.
The laws themselves are public morality laws and the drafters of them really didn't care who suffered from them. It is like prohibition, which hurt the middle and upper classes more than the lower classes (it was brewers who went to jail). Public morality laws don't give a damn who gets busted for the laws.
To say that the drug laws were simply targetting the poor is not seeing the whole issue at all and coloring it with your politics.
The lower classes cannot afford good legal counsel and suffer unduly because of it.
Then I take it you will say that every Western country violates human rights by singling out the poor?“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Goingonit, George W. Bush used to do cocaine and god knows what else. Why is it ok for him to do drugs and not poor people? His daughters have their drug issues too, but you don't see the American people clamoring for their incarceration. It is always the faceless poor who suffer from these laws and again because they cannot afford good legal representation. Basically you get the justice you can afford."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Only if you see is as an attack on the lower classes, which it looks like your ideology seems to think it is. I REALLY doubt it was enacted to kick it to the lower classes. Many in the middle class also end up going to jail because of the drug laws.
The laws themselves are public morality laws and the drafters of them really didn't care who suffered from them. It is like prohibition, which hurt the middle and upper classes more than the lower classes (it was brewers who went to jail). Public morality laws don't give a damn who gets busted for the laws.
To say that the drug laws were simply targetting the poor is not seeing the whole issue at all and coloring it with your politics.
The lower classes cannot afford good legal counsel and suffer unduly because of it.
Then I take it you will say that every Western country violates human rights by singling out the poor?
I agree with you. It isn't just an attack on the poor, it's an attack on anyone who cannot afford a good lawyer."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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