Why are Americans so different from the rest of us Westerners

[mactbone]

Whoa, most Americans I know have an extensive interest in the company they work for and try to stay current with that business because work is everything and they want to know in advance whether cuts are coming, etc., etc.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Frogger


No crud...

But if (when?) you open borders now your mills are going to be facing some badasses up north, in addition to the sharks you've drawn in (Asian and Euro) with the scent of a protected market for the taking...

You are overdoing the analogy of working out. Yes there will be a dislocation when the markets open. But if anything, currently open markets would encourage more investment targeted at US markets. Capitalists don't invest perferentially in the hopes that the markets will open. To what ever extent they invest now (in the hopes of eventual opening), they would invest even more if it were free now. I would remind you that in CA and the US both, these markets are relatively competetive internally. So the mills will try to be competetive regardless. If CA has factor advantages that make them more competetive (like cheaper logs or more old growth forests or what have you) that is what will win the day for them, once the walls come down. Not a bunch of tough living and working out.

[KrazyHorse]

Biggest factor is actually currency, Gp. Which is what, IMO the tarriffs were actually targetted at...

[TCO]

I don't like the tarrif. It is bull****. Especially against our maple leaf friends.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Great thread, AH. I have read all of it, except some of the obvious *****ing from both sides.

Ned, your first post, as well as all of Tass' and Spiff's last are the golden reads here.

Spiffor - one of your last points, that the US needs a Great Evil to oppose, makes a lot of sense to me. I am an NZer. We have no Great Evil Other to oppose. We are patriotic, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone chanting "Ki-wis!" outside of an International cricket, rugby or netball match. I have been in Oz for the last 9 weeks, and it is much the same here. And Oz is in a much closer situation to the US than NZ is. Oz has a larger army, and the Govt feels to some degree it has dominion over the Pacific (many of the islands are Oz-administered or closely aligned with Oz). Oz has separate States with their own governments and seems to be a lot more inward-looking than NZ. Yet the same things I have seen about America as a nation are not nearly mirrored here.

It deeply puzzles me why Americans can get so het up about some matters, and why American public opinion and more often American Government actions are so bizarre. I leave this thread at the moment believing the difference is in the way the world is shown to Americans: there is a Great Evil to be opposed at all times, and other news from outside of America is less emphasised, if it is there at all. Every other nation has to be more aware of overseas matters (at the very least what the US is doing at any one time), and thus their outlook is a lot less like many Americans'.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Eh! We were once part of the British empire, the greatest empire the world has ever seen, and we were full British citizens, unlike the coloured colonies. Our MP's sat in the British parliament and took seats in Britain long after federation. Our Prime Minister was part of the British war cabinet. So f8ck you. We've been part of this world domination game a lot longer than you.

Can't find your own greatness so you hang onto the coattails, eh?

You are our ***** now Horsie.

[TCO]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Great thread, AH. I have read all of it, except some of the obvious *****ing from both sides.

Ned, your first post, as well as all of Tass' and Spiff's last are the golden reads here.

Spiffor - one of your last points, that the US needs a Great Evil to oppose, makes a lot of sense to me. I am an NZer. We have no Great Evil Other to oppose. We are patriotic, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone chanting "Ki-wis!" outside of an International cricket, rugby or netball match. I have been in Oz for the last 9 weeks, and it is much the same here. And Oz is in a much closer situation to the US than NZ is. Oz has a larger army, and the Govt feels to some degree it has dominion over the Pacific (many of the islands are Oz-administered or closely aligned with Oz). Oz has separate States with their own governments and seems to be a lot more inward-looking than NZ. Yet the same things I have seen about America as a nation are not nearly mirrored here.

It deeply puzzles me why Americans can get so het up about some matters, and why American public opinion and more often American Government actions are so bizarre. I leave this thread at the moment believing the difference is in the way the world is shown to Americans: there is a Great Evil to be opposed at all times, and other news from outside of America is less emphasised, if it is there at all. Every other nation has to be more aware of overseas matters (at the very least what the US is doing at any one time), and thus their outlook is a lot less like many Americans'.

I don't think that is fundamental to the American character. It may be fundamental to the situation of a superpower. Although we seemed to manage fine from 1990-20001 without a EVIL to oppose. And even had a Bush Doctrine (continued by Clinton) which said our interests were diuffuse and varied over the world and that we were generally interested in promoting a world of free trade and democracy but that we no longer faced a main enemy. Also, I think that it was only after WW2 that we had a BIG enemy. So you are blowing recent events out of proportion. Because American attitudes predate WW2.

I've already said that it is MUCH more about the Revolutionary War, about the Pilgrims, about how we have made a hard and different break from the Old World ways. Those sorts of things are much more at the core of the American sense of pride.

[DuncanK]

The US had already developed a national mentality before the Red Scare. This mentality was very right wing, and the Puritans had something to do with that.

I don't know if non-Americans know about the Red Scare. In the last part of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th century the US got a lot of immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe (including Germans). Many of these immigrants had very left wing ideas (Anarchist and Communists). The propertied class in this country was able to convince the poor in this country that the ideas of these immigrants were evil and that the immingrants were also evil. They spread a lot of propaganda about them and railroaded many of them for crimes they probably didn't commit. It's one of the ugliest periods in US history. Ever since this time left wing ideas are thought of as foreign and evil. Couple that with a century of right wing\anti-Communist propaganda and you have a very conservative society.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GP
I don't like the tarrif. It is bull****. Especially against our maple leaf friends.

You're just being nice cause I smacked Horsie around...

[HershOstropoler]

GP:

Funny how you can get worked up about a little criticism of your share of stardust.

"1. Great one dude predicted it. Means alot?"

Just one example to add to what you've said.

"2. DeToqueville is not taught as a "simple glorification" of America. He does come up with some very apt analyses of the American spirit. And in general is impressed with it."

That was the 1830s when the US was the most progressive country. Today the US is the least progressive western country. I'd also say that today's political and social system is very different from 170 years ago, and I do not think attitudes are unchanged.

"Unlike you, who obsess about the US and our "glory" and good press and the like."

While I said differences are gradual, the US is to me the strangest western country. I find it quite interesting. If you feel jumped on the balls, that's your problem.

"BTW, you seem to be in the minority of business-minded young people in Europe. They were all vying for assignments in the US, when I worked in Germany and Swistzerland."

When was that ?

"Very little enthusiasm in reverse. I even heard lots of your countrymen who thought the US was far more dynamic and interesting in terms of business."

You obviously do not understand the Austrian mentality. (Well, nobody really does, not even us )

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Frogger
GP, when was the last time we had to call on you? And as to the rest of the West?

"Never" for us, "WWII" for everybody else. Grow up, man. That was sixty years ago...

It would be nice if we could defend our borders today, but we cannot. We depend on the good will of the USofA for our continued illusion of sovereignty. Too bad, so sad, but your compatriots do not seem to want to vote for anything else...

[KrazyHorse]

NYE, do you mind telling me who besides the US has the wherewithal to violate our borders on a large scale?

[KrazyHorse]

And even the likeliest suspects are all our friends...

[notyoueither]

Oh, and btw, my brother is a logger on VCI. He has never been busier.

It seems the tarrifs have have a reverse impact in some places. The logging companies have decided they need to flood the American market even more with lumber to make a buck. So they are cutting and shipping more than before.

That does not happen everywhere, just in places with woods in demand. Go figure.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Frogger
NYE, do you mind telling me who besides the US has the wherewithal to violate our borders on a large scale?

The Russians?