Chinese Discovery America in 1421

[Ned]

Originally posted by cavebear


Ruhlen, in "The Origin of Languages" mentions the "Dene-Caucasian" family comprised of Basque, Caucasian, Burushasky, Sino-Tibetan, Yeniseian, and Na-Dene. All these languages are isolated; separated by languages of the Eurasiatic family of languages.

The locations of these isolates are the Pyrenees, between the Black and Caspian Seas, Southern China down through Burma, a small pocket in north central Russia (intersection north of Bangladesh and west of Bering strait), Colorado to Houston, and from central Alaska through northwestern Canada.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that the Basque language is part of a very old language group of an ancient culture that was mostly overrun in prehistorical times (before the submersion of the Bering Land Bridge).

With some North American people speaking their version of their common language ancestor as the Basques, it is entirely possible for Basque sailors on Columbus' ships to have recognized vocabulary cognates and grammer and had an easier time picking up the local Indian language.

Cavebear, I would suggest that one could date the last time two languages were "common" by measuring the differences between them --almost like one can date the last time two peoples were "common" using DNA. I would suggest to the extent that there is anything at all common among these ancient languages, it dates from a time after the end of the last ice age. My reasoning for this assertion is expressed earlier in this thread. But I think it is fairly obvious that the ice blocked passage south out of the Alaska even though there was a land bridge connecting the continents. However, once the ice receded, travel south was possible. People could easily traverse the Bering Straight with even primitive rafts. Unlike the Atlantic Ocean, the journey (both ways) could be taken by the adventerous because one can see all the way across and there are inhabited islands in the middle.

[Wernazuma III]

mindseye: It's a spanish approximation. It's like "Tehnotsh" in English.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Berzerker
"Caesar" which was borrowed from the Sumerian "Sar".

And I thought the title came from the person with the name Caesar - oh, how dumb I was!

[Wernazuma III]

One more word about Votan.
It's not typically Mayan, I agree. But what entitles you to call it "unmayan"? It could have been transcribed "Botan" too (B and V in Spanish are the same), what definitely appears to be "more" Mayan. I've found a Mayan God called Ghanan, what doesn't sound Mayan at all. Would you suggest that Mayans had knowledge of the Ghana-Kingdom in Africa?

[cavebear]

Originally posted by Ned

Cavebear, I would suggest that one could date the last time two languages were "common" by measuring the differences between them --almost like one can date the last time two peoples were "common" using DNA. I would suggest to the extent that there is anything at all common among these ancient languages, it dates from a time after the end of the last ice age. My reasoning for this assertion is expressed earlier in this thread. But I think it is fairly obvious that the ice blocked passage south out of the Alaska even though there was a land bridge connecting the continents. However, once the ice receded, travel south was possible. People could easily traverse the Bering Straight with even primitive rafts. Unlike the Atlantic Ocean, the journey (both ways) could be taken by the adventerous because one can see all the way across and there are inhabited islands in the middle.

Ned - If you are suggesting that the Americas were settled by coastal hopping rather than land travel, I won't argue for or against that as the issue isn't settled and I'd accept either method. *How* the Americas were settled isn't as important as that they *were* settled, and by whom.

But I wasn't arguing the dates so much as pointing out that relatives to the Basque language do exist in very scatterred locations across Europe, Asia, and North America.

It is difficult to date languages or even to identify genetic/ethnic connections among them. I think it was Ruhlen who pointed out that "languages don't have sex" (but it might have been the Cavalli-Sforza's).

I am very interested in ancient linguistics and human migrations from about 30,000 to the agricultural revolution.

[Tolls]

"...(B and V in Spanish are the same)..."

I was working him towards that one...
"Bo" is a perfectly valid Mayan syllable.

Had "V" been such a problem (say) then we wouldn't have the Popol Vuh!


Thank you for the notes on Tenochtitlan. I was going to hunt down the pronounciation, but you've saved me the trouble. As mindseye says, this is a (spanish) approximation of the Nahuatl original, so simply saying that "enoch" is in the word is pretty ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding behind the linguistics, or a twisting of the language to fit a theory...something Sitchin is a master of...

[Wernazuma III]

Had "V" been such a problem (say) then we wouldn't have the Popol Vuh!

Haven't you yet noticed: Popol=People, Vuh is like German "Buch" (book), it's even very simliarily pronounced. So, essentially, Popol Vuh means the People's book.

[Tolls]

Does that mean we're all really German?

[Ned]

Originally posted by cavebear


Ned - If you are suggesting that the Americas were settled by coastal hopping rather than land travel, I won't argue for or against that as the issue isn't settled and I'd accept either method. *How* the Americas were settled isn't as important as that they *were* settled, and by whom.

But I wasn't arguing the dates so much as pointing out that relatives to the Basque language do exist in very scatterred locations across Europe, Asia, and North America.

It is difficult to date languages or even to identify genetic/ethnic connections among them. I think it was Ruhlen who pointed out that "languages don't have sex" (but it might have been the Cavalli-Sforza's).

I am very interested in ancient linguistics and human migrations from about 30,000 to the agricultural revolution.

Can you even identify when language started?

But just a little more on my theory - there appears to be a worldwide myth of a great flood. If this is a memory of a real event, then it must have happened more than 11,000 years ago if the "land bridge" theory is correct. If it is not, and peoples came to the new world continuously since the end of the ice age, the great flood could have been the last several thousand years.

If the memory is of the Black Sea flooding - I believe this occurred in the last 5,000 years - I don't recall the exact date, the New World flood myths could even be of this event.

As well, the Aztec Votan actually could be the German god Votan.

[Wernazuma III]

Tolls: The Germanics and Aryans were the original race, all others are only degenerated human versions, didn't you know that?
PS for the mods: [irony][/irony]