Greece faces shame of role in Serb massacre

[Flatlander Fox]

Too bad during the bombings we didn't get any Greeks then...

To be proud of stuff like that denotes idiocy, and a trace of madness.

This was common knowledge among the people that were there, I drove through Thessoloniki in 1999 and actually had Greeks throwing rocks at us as we drove our vehicles towards Macedonia. I guess they didn't want us busting in on their party.

[DinoDoc]

17N was less signifigant than this new allegation and look how much Greece got bothered by them.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
17N was less signifigant than this new allegation and look how much Greece got bothered by them.

What is bothered? Embarassed by getting caught?

Have these things cost Greece a dime? Trade sanctions
by the UN would be a bother.

[Dr Strangelove]

I don't get it. The topic of the thread was Greek participation in massacres in Bosnia! Kosovo wasn't even mentioned. Why is paiktis bringing up the topic of Kosovo? Maybe he doesn't have anything to say in defense of the actions of his countrymen in Bosnia?

IIRC the Serbians had already begun terrorizing Kosovars as early as 1996-1997. They stripped the Kosovars of their political rights and even of their property. Even before that Milosevic made it clear that in his Greater Serbia/Yugoslavia non-Serbs would have no rights. That's why the Croatians, Slovones and Macedonians seceeded. They didn't want to be slaves to the Serbs. The Kosovars stayed with the Serbs until the Serbs began to demonstrate exactly what their standing in the new Serbia would be. Their crime is the crime of resisting genocide.

Some of the people who decry the self-defense of the Kosovar people have been outspoken in support of minorities in other parts of the world fighting for self-determination. It is evident that these (this) poster doesn't feel the same way when Orthodox peoples are involved as the persecutors. The funny thing is that these posters have made it clear in the past that they are not very religious at all.

[axi]

There are fascist scum in Greece too. They are the descendants of a long line of rightwing paramilitaries, junta supporters, commie-hunters and nazi-collaborators. The western imperialists have always been in good terms with them, so why are they surprised that these people were used as mercenaries by Karadjic e.a.? Do not forget that in the early nineties, Greece was undergoing a vast political transition. The Right came to power once again and they immediately raised the flames of nationalism, to divert attention from the economic crisis and chaos that their neoliberal policies were bringing. The whole "Macedonia" issue was brought out of proportion by the domestic rightwingers and when the war in bosnia erupted, many of them judged that the Serbians would win the war and were eager to befriend them. The logic of "natural allies" in the Balkans predominated in the minds of businessmen, politicians and journalists alike, making us think by the standards of the Balkan wars. But then the war was rather distant and the Americans and Germans were not blatantly involved. By the time of the Kosovo war, the Greek public opinion was 100% anti-NATO, while the official govt kept a stance of neutrality, knowing that even after the Milosevic era, the Serbs would rely as heavily on greek capital as they did before.

Personally I think that Milosevic, Karadjic, Mladic, e.a. are no more guilty than their Croat and Bosnian muslim counterparts, the KLA leaders and the NATO :hawks". Every warmonger is essentially the same and they all have their hands soaked in blood and their records full with crimes. The Greek "volunteers" are then no more guilty than the muslims from all over the world that went to fight with the Bosnians and the KLA. This sort of people are something between the Taliban and the French Foreign Legion: they do it for a mix of profit and doctrine, but they are not the sort of thing whole nations and governments should be liable about. I bet many american mercenaries have done that and worse, in the service of dictators in South America, Africa and Asia.

What I do not want to be overlooked is the people behind these "revelations" in Greece. A couple of journalists, a notorious neo-liberal politician, an that's that. Their attitude seems really suspect to me, since they pretty much are chastising the entire greek political scene, left through right, for "siding with a bloody dictator", just weeks before a new attack against a "bloody dictator" is going to be launched. Combine this, which is, politically speaking, a troll against the conservatinve right-wing, along with the "anti-terrorist crusade" against the left, because of the 17N persecutions and you will see that perhaps these people are following an agenda. To have everybody here (and specially the media) succumb to the western, predominantly neo-liberal and new-orderish POV, as the govt arleday has (and always will no doubt). There is already a black list of anti-american journalists published, with the support of the US embassy. Propaganga is at ful swing right now and this lobby is planing to own some media of it's own soon. We can't have people throwing rocks at the NATO vehicles, can we?

[C0ckney]

Personally I think that Milosevic, Karadjic, Mladic, e.a. are no more guilty than their Croat and Bosnian muslim counterparts, the KLA leaders and the NATO :hawks". Every warmonger is essentially the same and they all have their hands soaked in blood and their records full with crimes. The Greek "volunteers" are then no more guilty than the muslims from all over the world that went to fight with the Bosnians and the KLA. This sort of people are something between the Taliban and the French Foreign Legion: they do it for a mix of profit and doctrine, but they are not the sort of thing whole nations and governments should be liable about. I bet many american mercenaries have done that and worse, in the service of dictators in South America, Africa and Asia.

brilliant summing up

[Flatlander Fox]

"We can't have people throwing rocks at the NATO vehicles, can we?"


Well, when you are in said vehicle, it's not alot of fun.

And it makes you wonder why people resemble sheep so much, instead of thinking for themselves, they follow the nearest idealistic notion and act on it..


Painting with a broad brush in these circumstances helps only the small minded achieve their goals. There are many things that are convienently coming out RIGHT NOW, as the U.S. prepares for war.

[Sava]

You people, especially Doc Strangelove, really need to educate yourselves on this subject beyond what CNN feeds you. You've painted this picture of Milosevic that is blatantly false. "Genocidal dictator?" please... there's not one bit of damn evidence supporting this claim. The mass graves that were found were of Albanian terrorists and soldiers... non-serbs are not discriminated against as you would let others know.

A quick review... the Albanians in Bosnia and Kosovo wanted to secede from Yugoslavia. This is like hispanics in California and the Southwest wanting to secede. Milosevic did what he had to do to stop the Albanian terrorists that were slaughtering Serb women and children and attacking civilians. The Serbs, on the other hand, targeted (what are commonly know as) enemy combatants.

Paiktis knows what he's talking about and you people don't.

[Flatlander Fox]

Originally posted by Sava
You people, especially Doc Strangelove, really need to educate yourselves on this subject beyond what CNN feeds you. You've painted this picture of Milosevic that is blatantly false. "Genocidal dictator?" please... there's not one bit of damn evidence supporting this claim. The mass graves that were found were of Albanian terrorists and soldiers... non-serbs are not discriminated against as you would let others know.

A quick review... the Albanians in Bosnia and Kosovo wanted to secede from Yugoslavia. This is like hispanics in California and the Southwest wanting to secede. Milosevic did what he had to do to stop the Albanian terrorists that were slaughtering Serb women and children and attacking civilians. The Serbs, on the other hand, targeted (what are commonly know as) enemy combatants.

Paiktis knows what he's talking about and you people don't.

I suppose the twelve people that I personally saw laid out in a grave north of Sarejevo were soldiers?

None of them were older than 15 or younger than 70 BTW. Several were girls and old women.

Most of the people who support Slobo make me sick. The motives for many things that happened there were all wrong, including some of the NATO motives, but anyone who says that non-combatants weren't targeted is a bona-fide idiot.

Maybe you should watch something OTHER than state sponsored T.V.

[DinoDoc]

17N persecutions

Let's give the poor murderers a medal and a parade through the heart of Athens!

[Arrian]

please... there's not one bit of damn evidence supporting this claim. The mass graves that were found were of Albanian terrorists and soldiers... non-serbs are not discriminated against as you would let others know.

____________________________________________

I suppose the twelve people that I personally saw laid out in a grave north of Sarejevo were soldiers?

None of them were older than 15 or younger than 70 BTW. Several were girls and old women.

One was there, the other was not. I know who I believe.

-Arrian

[Flatlander Fox]

I suppose all of these graves have soldiers in them...

In the background is a soccer field in Sarajevo that was converted to a cemetary. On the right you can see some of the Olympic Stadium. In the foreground you can see the obvious, a cemetary filled with "combatants" of the seige.


I didn't get it sized, but I think the detail is better with it big.

Sorry to all of those who will curse me for my big a$$ed picture.

[Bereta_Eder]

A nice cemetary indeed.

Is this of the 2.000 children, old women and other civilians murdered by the NATO bombing?

Which was of course done primarily if not solely for the purpose of justifying the existance of that organization?

Maybe you can also give us a nice pic of the thousands of albanians leaving en mass...?

It also started after the bombing.

[Bereta_Eder]

Also did you too see when Albanians were ethnically cleansing Kosovo under the proverbial impassivity of NATO "peacekeeping forces"?


Or did you just look the other way in that particular instance?

[Shi Huangdi]

This article gives good insight into the Greeks. At first I thought such barbaric right-wing nationalism was the sole province of nutjobs like Paiktis, but it seems sentiments such of his are more widepread in Greek society. It is sad that Greeks would support murderers and war criminals simply because of ethnic and religious similarities. It seems quite obvious is Greece is not a civilized Western Nation, but a civilization with many uncivilzed Barbarians.