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  • #76
    Maybe in the UK and Australia. I don't think a majority support it in the US. I'm of two minds about it myself.

    In any event, we've gone through this before. In the US, even if you legalize it, it could never be a legit business. The nicotine business has troubles being legit, for instance.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Graag


      Hmmm. Inaaresting words, but what evidence is there it is genetic? I would suggest if people with depression have depressed parents, it is more likely their environement causes the depression.

      Either way, depression itself cannot be compared to a disease like flu. You don't catch it.
      Studies have been done on identical twins seperated at birth and raised by different families. The concordance factor for the lifetime risk of major depression for the (seperated) identical twins was a phenomenal 85%. Concordance for fraternal twins and siblings was around 40%. The concordance factor for siblings raised together was only a little higher, 55%.
      "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Graag

        In the case of weed, the majority want it legal.
        Consider this, if you legalize it, then why shouldn't you let corporations get a piece of the drug trade. Trust me on this, if you let the American Tobacco Co., Phillip Morris, or R.J. Reynolds get ahold of the drug trade civilization won't stand a chance.
        "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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        • #79
          Maybe in the UK and Australia. I don't think a majority support it in the US.
          Hmm, I'd be curious to see the actual figures on that.
          BTW, I'm pretty sure the majority of the EU populace supports legalisation of weed.

          In any event, we've gone through this before. In the US, even if you legalize it, it could never be a legit business. The nicotine business has troubles being legit, for instance.
          What do you mean by that about the nicotine business?
          And anyway, its not the business I'm worried about, it's locking up tokers that bothers me. I just want to smoke without worrying about the law. Can really ruin a good high
          I have discovered that China and Spain are really one and the same country, and it's only ignorance that leads people to believe they are two seperate nations. If you don't belive me try writing 'Spain' and you'll end up writing 'China'."
          Gogol, Diary of a Madman

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          • #80
            Studies have been done on identical twins seperated at birth and raised by different families. The concordance factor for the lifetime risk of major depression for the (seperated) identical twins was a phenomenal 85%. Concordance for fraternal twins and siblings was around 40%. The concordance factor for siblings raised together was only a little higher, 55%.
            Wow. Impressive figures. Question 1: what is concordense?
            Question 2: How many children raised by foster parents are depressed anyway?

            Consider this, if you legalize it, then why shouldn't you let corporations get a piece of the drug trade. Trust me on this, if you let the American Tobacco Co., Phillip Morris, or R.J. Reynolds get ahold of the drug trade civilization won't stand a chance.
            Fair point, perhaps civilisation needs it. Drug use (or rather, abuse) is slowly increasing year on year, back as far records start. Something has to give eventually, perhaps Mr Morris should just speed up the inevitibale.
            I have discovered that China and Spain are really one and the same country, and it's only ignorance that leads people to believe they are two seperate nations. If you don't belive me try writing 'Spain' and you'll end up writing 'China'."
            Gogol, Diary of a Madman

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            • #81
              "I just want to smoke without worrying about the law."

              If only it were so simple. The trial lawyers would have a field day with inherently dangerous products such as weed, just as they are doing with tobacco. And this is right, since I don't feel it necessary to pay for the evils that your high creates. Fvck that.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Graag
                Question 2: How many children raised by foster parents are depressed anyway?
                Not relevant, seeing as how the concordance rate dropped so severely between identical twins and siblings. Since both sets were raised by foster parents, no control group is necessary, since the only variable is their genetics.
                <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                • #83
                  If only it were so simple. The trial lawyers would have a field day with inherently dangerous products such as weed, just as they are doing with tobacco.
                  Hmm, what about booze? And really I think this arguement is bunk. There must be a way sell it without fear of lawsuits, cigs are still on sale you notice

                  And this is right, since I don't feel it necessary to pay for the evils that your high creates. Fvck that.
                  Eh? How are you paying? If it was legalised, the tax would be astronomical at anyway.

                  Loinburger, apologies, but you'll have to answer question 1 and explain the whole concordance thing and first, I'm still confused.
                  I have discovered that China and Spain are really one and the same country, and it's only ignorance that leads people to believe they are two seperate nations. If you don't belive me try writing 'Spain' and you'll end up writing 'China'."
                  Gogol, Diary of a Madman

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                  • #84
                    "There must be a way sell it without fear of lawsuits, cigs are still on sale you notice"

                    For the moment. I don't see how it can continue.

                    "Hmm, what about booze?"

                    I don't think anybody has had success showing that it's an inherently dangerous product. Maybe they will in the future.

                    "How are you paying?"

                    By all these depressives around. The fact is that if you screw up your mind or body, I will end up paying for it.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Graag
                      Loinburger, apologies, but you'll have to answer question 1 and explain the whole concordance thing and first, I'm still confused.
                      It means (among other things, but I'm just giving you the most relevant definition), "Genetics. The presence of a given trait in both members of a pair of twins." In other words, with an 85% concordance rate in identical twins, if one twin suffered from depression then there would be an 85% chance that the other would (eventually) suffer from depression. For siblings and fraternal twins (siblings are genetically equivalent to fraternal twins), if one sibling suffered from depression, then there would be a 40% chance that the other would (eventually) suffer from depression.

                      Since the twins/siblings were separated at birth, they would not be under identical environmental influences (other than the common factor that they're both in foster homes), so while it's possible that the test subjects were suffering from environmental depression and not genetic depression this would not account for the dramatic increase in the concordance of identical twins over the concordance of siblings, i.e. if 20% of all test subjects suffered from environmental depression then this would still mean that the identical twins (who are much more similar genetically than siblings) had a 40% concordance increase (which can only be attributed to genetics, since that is the only variable). The reason (I assume) that concordance is higher in non-separated siblings than in separated sibligs is that having a sibling suffer from depression adds a severe stressor to the life of the sibling who is not suffering, which can either trigger genetic depression or which can cause environmental depression.
                      <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                      • #86
                        For the moment. I don't see how it can continue.
                        Ain't gonna happen. If tobbaco is driven underground, all hell will break loose. The day the legal suppliers pull out of the market, america will burn. Never underestimate the anger and pain of withdrawl, especially on a mass level.

                        I don't think anybody has had success showing that it's an inherently dangerous product. Maybe they will in the future.
                        No sh*t.

                        The fact is that if you screw up your mind or body, I will end up paying for it.
                        Hmm, better ban all forms of adventure sport, driving and leaving your home. All high-risk activites you know.
                        I have discovered that China and Spain are really one and the same country, and it's only ignorance that leads people to believe they are two seperate nations. If you don't belive me try writing 'Spain' and you'll end up writing 'China'."
                        Gogol, Diary of a Madman

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                        • #87
                          don't hold your breath for a ban on Cigarettes, Dan...
                          "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                          You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

                          "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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                          • #88
                            If I understood what you said Loinburger, that doesn't in any way prove depression is genetic.
                            I have discovered that China and Spain are really one and the same country, and it's only ignorance that leads people to believe they are two seperate nations. If you don't belive me try writing 'Spain' and you'll end up writing 'China'."
                            Gogol, Diary of a Madman

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Graag
                              If I understood what you said Loinburger, that doesn't in any way prove depression is genetic.
                              The only variable between the two sets of test cases is genetic, i.e. the pairs with the more similar genetics had (dramatically) higher concordances, ergo depression must involve genetic factors. There is no other explanation for the increase in concordances for identical twins.
                              <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                              • #90
                                Perhaps it is genetic then
                                The only other explanation I could offer is identical twins are depressed because they are seperated, and they should be together. That, or they have some sort of mind-link, so one's depression affects the other.
                                But I conceed, the evidence does strongly suggest depression is genetic. Whaddya know!
                                I have discovered that China and Spain are really one and the same country, and it's only ignorance that leads people to believe they are two seperate nations. If you don't belive me try writing 'Spain' and you'll end up writing 'China'."
                                Gogol, Diary of a Madman

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