Medieval Eurocom History: sinkholes, wolves, and gout

[Ted Striker]

Here's an interesting story concerning agriculture. It is actually ancient history though.

The Egyptians grew a kind of wheat called Kamut. It was a tough kind of plant and grew well in the environment.

Years later, the Greeks under Alexander invaded and took the place over. They replaced the wheat there with Greek (durum) wheat, which is what we all in the West grow and eat. Kamut ceased to be grown

This is where it get interesting.

Following WWII, a US airman claimed to have taken a handful of this grain from a stone box in a tomb near Dashare, Egypt. Thirty-six kernels of the grain were given to a friend who mailed them to his father, a Montana wheat farmer. The farmer planted and harvested a small crop and displayed the grain as a novelty at the local fair. Believing the legend that the giant grain kernels were taken from an Egyptian tomb, the grain was dubbed "King Tut's Wheat." But soon the novelty wore off and this ancient grain was all but forgotten. In 1977, one remaining jar of "King Tut's Wheat" was obtained by T. Mack Quinn, another Montana wheat farmer, who with his son Bob, an agricultural scientist and plant biochemist soon perceived the value of this unique grain. They spent the next decade propagating the humped-backed kernels originally selected from the small jar. Their research revealed that wheats of this type originated in the fertile crescent area which runs from Egypt to the Tigris-Euphrates valley. The Quinns coined the trade name "Kamut" an ancient Egyptian word for wheat. Egyptologists claim the root meaning of Kamut is "Soul of the Earth."

The real story is still elusive. Scientists believe that Kamut was still grown in obscurity somewhere in Egypt or surrounding areas, but never in large scale, commerical production.

Kamut is a superior source of vitamins and protein over Greek wheat. People who have wheat allergies are often recommened to use Kamut bread instead. Kamut is also a tougher plant than Greek wheat, and is easier to grow, requiring no pesticides or fertilizers.

The forgotten grain that fed the Egyptian empire is now available to you!

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1999/v4-182.html

[Sikander]

There was a huge population loss as the Roman empire collapsed, particularly among the urban elite who were the keepers of a lot of technology. The devolution of the political establishment in most places meant that many of the complex trading systems of the Roman era were essentially destroyed, and the results were the starvation of many large urban areas. It is estimated that the population of many parts of Western Europe during the "dark ages" dropped to about 25% of its level during good Roman times, mostly from the effects of warfare directly, as well as the disruption of distribution networks. Of course as has been said previously, these effects were not seen everywhere or in the same degree even where they were experienced.

[TheStinger]

The vast majority of the Scottish population is from the same decent as of the English. It is a complete myth put about by the more moronic scots nationalists that The Scottish are some isolated celtic people.

I'm not saying they aren't celtic just that not any more than the English

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Its not a BBC study. It was performed by University College, London.

The article states that the study was funded by the BBC.

[Ned]

By the time the Normans took England in 1066, they appeared to be speaking French, not Norse or Latin. And yet, they were settled in Normandy for only 100 years. Doesn't this suggest that the Normans of 1066 were largely a mixture of Vikings and Gaulish women?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Ned
Well, Molly, except for Charlemagne, Europe really achieved nothing of note for hundreds of yeard. Cite one thing that the Europeans did to advance civilization from 500 to 1000.

The Venerable Bede's work on the chronology of Christianity which established the dating system still in use today.

That's one. How many more would you like? Restricted to just Britain, or including mainland Europe as well?

[Ned]

Lazarus, Anywhere in Europe - but excluding the Church, which continued to carry on Roman culture, and the areas still under Roman control.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sikander
There was a huge population loss as the Roman empire collapsed, particularly among the urban elite who were the keepers of a lot of technology. The devolution of the political establishment in most places meant that many of the complex trading systems of the Roman era were essentially destroyed, and the results were the starvation of many large urban areas. It is estimated that the population of many parts of Western Europe during the "dark ages" dropped to about 25% of its level during good Roman times, mostly from the effects of warfare directly, as well as the disruption of distribution networks. Of course as has been said previously, these effects were not seen everywhere or in the same degree even where they were experienced.

What happened to Europe as a result of the Barbarian and Arab invasions was very much like what would happen to modern Europe and America if there was an all-out nuclear war followed by rampaging gangs, bent on plunder and rape, that thereafter dominated the countryside for generations.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Ned
Lazarus, Anywhere in Europe - but excluding the Church, which continued to carry on Roman culture, and the areas still under Roman control.

Cute. So with that deft piece of footwork you get to exclude the breakthroughs in Church architecture in the time (which owed nothing to Rome), the ecclesiastical art of the Celtic Church (which owed nothing to Rome- Rome was openly hostile to it), the Cluniac reforms and the wave of intellectual fervour that followed it, the establishment of a consecrated monarchy which ended the turmoil and assassinations and brought political stability unprecedented even under the Romans, the establishment of schools right across Britain and just about all the written work of the time, as the vast majority of surviving wriiten work was by monks, even if was secular writing.

Still, I'll play ball and pick some examples going by your rules.

The Royal Navy (established by King Edgar)

"Beowulf"
The Norse Sagas.
The poetry of Israel the Grammarian
Numerous other heroic poems, if anyone's counting


The establishment of the principle of diminished responsibility in criminal law (established by the statutes of Athelstan limiting the level of punishments applicable to those below the age of 15).

The emergence of the land-owning middle class through the principle of bookland.

Bald's "Leechbook"- medical textbook detailing the correct useage of anaesthesia.

Wans****
Offa's ****
The Shire and Hundred administrative system.
The Abingdon Canal at Oxford

Trial by 12 jurors (established in Aethelred's third code of Wantage).

That's off the top of my head, sticking to England, and going by your rules which are, to be blunt, bollocks.

[Sonic]

First scyscreapers in the world were built in Shibam, Yemen (although they were rarely over 10 floors, their height was huge since floors themselves were tall). They are also oldest existing skyscreapers. Gundam Palace Scyscreaper in Sa'ana, Yemen, was the first scyscreaper to surpass 20 floors. It was built in about the time Jesus Christ lived, unfortuantely, it is destroyed now.

[Ted Striker]

So with that deft piece of footwork you get to exclude the breakthroughs in Church architecture in the time (wich owed nothing to Rome),

But wasn't the church architecture breakthroughs mainly attributed to the Muslims? The towers were certainly inspired by the Muslims. I also thought the supporting arches were also linked to the Roman arches.

[Buck Birdseed]

The norse sagas might be in the correct time period, but could hardly be considered mediaevall. At least by swedish nomenclature- our middle ages begin after the end of the late iron age/viking age with the adaption of an early feudal system towards the end of the eleventh century.

[chequita guevara]

Breakthroughs in church architcture post-date the Dark Ages, Laz. All the really innovative stuff comes after the 10th Century, at least, by which time the Dark Ages were over.

[Ned]

Lazarus, Thanks. I agree that the advances in criminal law are important and universally recognized today. All literature is important, so I'll give you that as well.

I am not so sure that have a middle-class land ownership system is new to civilization. Ditto any governmental systems. These seem to be modelled on the Roman government, but I might be wrong.

[Ted Striker]

Can somebody answer me this? This was mostly post-medieval, but I've searched for this answer and have yet to come up with anything.

There was a big trend for hundreds of years, for mostly French and Italian men, to be really effeminate in both manner and dress.

I mean I see the pictures of these guys wearing tights, skirts, high heels, long haired wigs, and lots of makeup.

Where did this awful trend get its start?