How can you not believe in evolution?

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Calc II
Science believers dont even agree on everything.

Yes, the difference being that when a scientist disagrees with another scientist, he/she is expected to give a reasonable justification for the disagreement. Creationists (who reject evolution) do not do this -- their argument boils down to "I don't like evolution, therefore I disagree with it."

Creationists are just the same way, theres some more dogmatic than others, there are some that are more scientist-like... You can't possibly consider a group to think all equally the same way!

Some Creationists arbitrarily reject more scientific evidence than others (there's a difference between a young-earth creationist and an old-earth creationist, f'rinstance), but the fundamental flaw in reasoning stays the same. I never have contentions with the Creationists who don't arbitrarily reject scientific evidence, since they already accept evolution.

Also, how do you explain a scientist carrying a rabbit's foot? Is that contradictory too?

Being a scientist does not automatically mean that one has a wholesale rejection of the supernatural, so no, I don't immediately see a contradiction.

[ayronis]

Line 18- The lord God said, It is not good for man to be alone; I will make a fitting helper for him.

Line 19- and the Lord God CALLED out of the earth all the wild beasts and all the birds of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that would be its name.....

Quote the right scripture if your going to bash your bible......okay? Thanks.

Well now. I was simply paraphrasing it as it appears in the King James Edition (the most widely used English Translation in the world)
18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19: And out of the ground the LORD God FORMED every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


The problem isn't between my translation (not mine anyways, i was paraphrasing) and yours, its the difference between the Christian Bible and the Jewish one.
Your translation is accurate. I read Biblical Hebrew too, I checked and I agree.

IN FACT if your going to bash your bibal, bash YOUR OWN as the vast, vast majority of Jews will tell you that evolution is fact(even those who are very devout, lebuvich(black hats etc....))-we dont apreciate you taking our texts to preach ignorance.

And I don't appreciate your speaking for the entire community of Jews. State your own opinions - fine. But don't presume to know the will of Jews everywhere.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I disagree with it, thus it's not a valid theory
Quiet a simplistic view you hold friend Boris!

Glorious irony, I've found you at last!

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


How do you know this is God's intention? After all, if the Bible is fallible, then any statement therein saying it is God's intention that it be fallible so people would seek him out is also questionable. It could just be fallible because the people who wrote it didn't know what they were talking about.

This is a good objection Boris. As I said, some may think that accepting that the Bible is fallible is a rather slippery slope to begin upon. But I know that this is God's intention because God is part of all of us. If we clear away things such as greed and materialism, and learn that we are all part of God, and that we all can be receptive toward him. The Jews used to speak of a part of the temple that only certain priests could enter, the holy of holies as they called it. I tell you that the holy of holies is not some temple that can be physiclaly reached, but it is within all of us. We are all able to commune with God on a very tangible and intimate level, but this commune won't come from any priest, but it will come from within ourselves. Therefore, that the Bible is fallible in certain parts, is not only possible, but it is essential to God's ultimate mission, bringing us closer to him. Complacently accepting what other people tell you will never result in a greater closeness to God. Actively seeking him out yourself will, however. And that is what God desires of us.

[Zero]

Originally posted by loinburger

Being a scientist does not automatically mean that one has a wholesale rejection of the supernatural, so no, I don't immediately see a contradiction.

Well thats what i was getting at. Just because one is a creationists doesnt mean he rejects science completely.

As for science being a tool, You still need to trust that science as a tool will give you a true results. Ack I tire of repeating myself.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Calc II
Well thats what i was getting at. Just because one is a creationists doesnt mean he rejects science completely.

I never said that creationists reject science completely, I said that they reject science inconsistently. It would actually help their position in my book if the did reject science completely, since then at least they'd be being consistent...

[Aeson]

Complacently accepting what other people tell you will never result in a greater closeness to God. Actively seeking him out yourself will, however. And that is what God desires of us.

How can you actively seek out something you don't have any evidence for? It seems like you are saying we all have evidence, so why don't we all see it? Shouldn't God know exactly how to best reach each and every individual?

[Zero]

Well I'm tired of participating in threads like this for the day. I had enough amount for one day.

So in conclusion, evolution occurs and creationism is bull..

[Aeson]

As for science being a tool, You still need to trust that science as a tool will give you a true results. Ack I tire of repeating myself.

Ah, I understand what you are saying now. I hope you understand that it's an argument which has no purpose in this context though. There are a select few subjects where it is an integral part of the discussion, but using it in any other discussion is akin to saying "you can't be sure of anything" over and over, contributing nothing to the discussion.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Aeson


How can you actively seek out something you don't have any evidence for? It seems like you are saying we all have evidence, so why don't we all see it? Shouldn't God know exactly how to best reach each and every individual?

As far as the evidence that you ask for, God manfests himself quite clearly, given proper searching for him. It it not just a manifestation that requires large ammounts of faith. While faith is preferrable, God realizes that people need something concrete and tangible as well.
God does know what would be the absolute ideal circumstances for appearing to each person in this life, but part of our spiritual growth process is that we actively search for him ourselves. Rest assured however, that God will always help those out who wish to search for him. The truth is that we all know God quite well. We only forget him temporarily in this life so that we can become stronger and closer to him. It is like always just playing Civ III on cheiftain, you will never get any better without greater challenge, and part of the difficulty level that we face in this life is coming to terms with God by our own active pursuits. That is, only through realizing God in this life can these greater truths be realized, and therefore, by realizing the greater nature of things, that person have a greater impact on the world. That's not to say that atheist people have never done anything good, quite on the contrary of course. It is only that the very highest levels of greatness can only be reached through a realization of God.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by monkspider

ProVo H.

One should embark on such a quest because it is the ultimate purpose of our lives here on Earth. To learn of God's greater truths, and eventually become one with God. I'm not sure what you mean by not having any backup, but any attempt to become closer to God will result in backup, guaranteed. God will make sure those who are trying to do the good thing will be well taken care of. So there will be backup, in the sense that God will make sure that you are well secured in your quest.
As far as Popeye goes, he was always one of my top five cartoons. Right up there with Rocky and Bullwinkle.

But to those who do not believe in the sanctity of your God, it would be a pointless exercise.

[Provost Harrison]

...plus the one thing I will never understand is how you reconcile Christianity and Communism. The two are quite clearly mutually exclusive. To Communism, Christianity is a classic religion in the fact that it is 'an opium of the people', is used to repress their desires and get them to tow the line.

[Aeson]

God manfests himself quite clearly, given proper searching for him.

My point is, what is proper searching for him? If God were an idol in South America, then proper searching for him would probably entail traveling there. Why should anyone undertake this journey before there is ample evidence given to do so?

[loinburger]

Marxism and Christianity are unreconcilable, sure, but I don't see anything intrinsically contradictory between Communism and Christianity. Heck, Jesus and the apostles were basically living in a hippie commune.

[monkspider]

ProVo H. - Whether you believe in him or not at present is mostly irrelevent, you will one day come to this conclusion. It is unfortunate that you don't come to this conclusion right now, but regardless you can still do a great deal of good for god, whether you realize it or not. Of course, God holds those of his children who may not have come a personal realization of him in this world but do much good for the world in much higher regard than those who have come to a realization of him, to one degree of another, and still actively practise evil. You ProVo H. have much less work ahead of you than some of the types such as Jerry Falwell, who seem to realize his existence and yet continually defy his will and generally make the world a much worse place.