Day of infamy - Nanjing Massacre 65th anniversary

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We probably should have remade Japanese society while we were at it. They're still horribly racist. At least they aren't militarists anymore (for the most part--fascism is still trendy there).

It's a wierd racism though. They seem to value Caucasian physiognomic traits above their own.

Can you name a society that isn't racist? They're still not letting the Turks into the EU are they? Well, at least they have their reasons.

Maybe what we need is a world Atonement Day. Let each nation remember those it screwed over.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

The world has changed. Racism is still rampant, but modern nations are far too dependent on each other, while weapons have become too lethal. Superpowers no longer feel the urge to attack each other

You could've said the exact same thing before WWI. I appreciate your optimism, but I don't know if I share it.

Yes, definitely, we could have said the same thing before WW1.

But countries don't wage war unless they're reasonably confident that they can win without attrition and with something to gain afterwards. (In other words, maximum returns with minimum cost.) Nukes make both of those impossible. This is precisely why India and Pakistan backed off very recently, why China still hasn't invaded US-backed Taiwan, and so on.

Besides, look at Europe today. Would France or Germany even bother to attack each other anymore? They're so economically tied that it's simply more profitable to trade than to fight. In 50 years, the same can very well be said about all superpowers - China, Russia, India, NATO. In that case, wars would be quick, localized affairs - Gulf Wars and Kosovo Wars. There would be no WW3.

(On the other hand.... I'm not factoring in the possibility of a madman. Some leaders don't listen to cooler-headed advisers...)

[Beta]

Urban Ranger - thank-you for the post - excellent discussion thread - very thought provoking.

sigh .....

[ranskaldan]

Lest we forget.


A reenactment of an experiment done by the IJA:

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It's a wierd racism though. They seem to value Caucasian physiognomic traits above their own.

A friend of mine spent a year in Japan as an English teacher. He is 6'5", half-white and half-lebanese, so he really stood out there. He tried to date Japanese, but they regarded him as a freak. One Japanese friend explained that for many, dating a non-Japanese person is seen as a fetish, almost like bestiality. He eventually found a white guy to date.

Can you name a society that isn't racist? They're still not letting the Turks into the EU are they? Well, at least they have their reasons.

While I wouldn't say there isn't racism in the EU, this isn't a good example. Turkey is not being excluded, as Europe will revist their application in 2004, and the reasons are not racial, but economic and political. Until Turkey makes some changes to their government, human rights and economic policies (like all EU countries had to), they can't be in the club.

Sure, there are probably Europeans who don't want them just because their Turks, but that's not an official reason.

Maybe what we need is a world Atonement Day. Let each nation remember those it screwed over.

National Brotherhood Week?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

A friend of mine spent a year in Japan as an English teacher. He is 6'5", half-white and half-lebanese, so he really stood out there. He tried to date Japanese, but they regarded him as a freak. One Japanese friend explained that for many, dating a non-Japanese person is seen as a fetish, almost like bestiality. He eventually found a white guy to date.

National Brotherhood Week?

Then why are all their anime characters white? I don't think it would be possible to put out a cartoon character in Japan who looked Oriental. It simply wouldn't sell.

Your friend was gay? Was he absolutely certain that the people he approached were gay also? Then again, if he looks Lebanese that might be a problem. The Japanese seem to very much admire light skin tones, light hair, and blue eyes. They might have a problem with a swarthy complected, hairy middle eastern type.

Nope. World Atonement Day. A day for each nation to remember ethnic groups and etc. who were the recipeints of their persecution in the past (or present). I'm certain that almost every nationality has some group that they tortured at one time or another.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Can you name a society that isn't racist? They're still not letting the Turks into the EU are they? Well, at least they have their reasons.

What the hell has this to do with racism? Is there a right to be in the EU I´m not aware of? Or has anyone said that Turks can´t be EU members because of their race?

[Drake Tungsten]

A friend of mine spent a year in Japan as an English teacher. He is 6'5", half-white and half-lebanese, so he really stood out there. He tried to date Japanese, but they regarded him as a freak. One Japanese friend explained that for many, dating a non-Japanese person is seen as a fetish, almost like bestiality. He eventually found a white guy to date.

Maybe this is because he is gay. I've heard the exact opposite from hetero males who have lived in Japan. Japanese women treat Caucasian men as a status symbol and pursue them doggedly.

BTW, did your friend teach in Japan on the JET program? I've applied for next year's JET and I'm really looking forward to it. And not just for the attention of Japanese women.

[Frankychan]

*big sigh*

The Nanjing (Nanking, to some) was a horrible massacre that shouldn't have happened. Innocent lives were lost because of the atrocities that Japanese military men committed.

However, I should point out to you all that Japan, Germany, nor the Soviet Union are the only ones guilty of despicable acts like these.

For instance, the United States of America passed out blankets contaminated with smallpox by the hundreds (if not thousands) to Native American Indians. Not many people are doing anything about this now, AFAIK.

No one seems to be complaining about the genocidal war in Africa (i.e. Congo, Angola, Rwanda & Burundi, etc.) Millions of people there have been butchered as well but I haven't seen much press about these. Just because these atrocities are in Africa, should one simply ignore them?

On article I read (Time, Newsweek, or NY Times Magazine...cannot remember) covered a war for coltan in one of the African countries. Coltan is used by our cell-phone BTW. Anyway, literally hundreds of thousands are working in deplorable conditions just so we can have an extra feature on our cellphone.....but it seems no one is paying much attention to them.

Now, I'm not justifying the Nanjing massacre, heck I'm half-japanese and I find it rather sick and disgusting. But neither am I glad America (my nationality) dropped the A-Bombs on two populated cities. I don't think Japan deserved the A-Bombs as much as the people of Nanjing deserved to be brutally murdered.

Basically what I'm saying is that pretty much EVERY country in this world has done something despicable to get to where it is today......The U.S. included.

(sorry for the rambling post, just had to get my 2-cents in)

[Boris Godunov]

Franky, this is a thread commemorating Nanjing. Doing that doesn't say nobody else has committed atrocities. We've also had threads commemorating the bad things done by the allies. This isn't the place for a "who did the worst" pissing contest.

[Frankychan]

Sorry Boris,

I read all the other posts discussing the a-bombs and what not and I got pissed off. There were some posts that I found rather offensive, but I won't rename them.

But you miss underlying point that I am also honoring those that lost their lives in the Massacre, but would like to point out that those posters who WERE bashing other countries should keep in mind that their country is not as innocent as they think.

........and my intention was not to make a "who did the worst" stuff here, sorry if you got the wrong intentions.

[Urban Ranger]

Frankychan,

It is true that a lot of nations have committed atrocities, but even so the IJA stood out like a sore thumb with a brutality that scared even the Nazis. The killing spees - matches between officers see who could kill the most, the testing of biological weapons on POW's, death matches, and the "comfort women" all point to a very deep and terrible pyschological problem. Namely that they didn't think the people in the occupied territories (and POW's) as humans.

The other very troubling aspect is the inability of Japan as a nation to come to terms of this. They mourn their own deaths of atomic bombings, but they completely neglect their victims. Not even Japan tries to neglect its own atrocities but it even tries to whitewash them. They keep revising the high school history textbooks and even deny the Nanjing Massacre.

Combine this with their strange brand of racism - worshipping Westerners while looking down upon other Asians - make all the neighbouring countries worry.

[Drake Tungsten]

And now the thread has degraded into the typical Asian hate fest. I was hoping it could stay civil and on-topic, but I should have known better.

[The Mad Monk]

Combine this with their strange brand of racism - worshipping Westerners while looking down upon other Asians - make all the neighbouring countries worry.

Is it because we won? Is that it?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
This isn't the place for a "who did the worst" pissing contest.

Oh, but I love contests.

Me first.

My great, great, great great gandad was a slaveowning Quaker elder in Virginia in the 1830s. In that year the Quaker church finally demanded that its membership give up their slaveowning ways, with no exceptions. Good ol' great, great, great, great grandpa answered this summons by renouncing the Quaker church, then put his back to his congreagation by packing up his family and slaves and moving to Tennessee to take possession of a farm just vacated by a deported Cherokee family. Legend has it that the fireplaces were still warm. Another legend has it that the former owner avoided deportation by accepting a position as foremen on his own (former) farm. Great great great great grandad, recognizing a terrific package deal, agreed without hesitation. Spirit like that made this country great or what?!