Day of infamy - Nanjing Massacre 65th anniversary

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Frankychan
*big sigh*

No one seems to be complaining about the genocidal war in Africa (i.e. Congo, Angola, Rwanda & Burundi, etc.) Millions of people there have been butchered as well but I haven't seen much press about these. Just because these atrocities are in Africa, should one simply ignore them?

Think about what you are saying. Clinton is the first and only US President to visit Africa while in office. When is the last time a US Pres. visited S. America?

They go to Europe, China, Japan, S. Korea.

Has a US Pres. ever been to Aust., N. Z?

The Nazi killing were bad, however the way the Japanese kill, I think were far worse.

[Boris Godunov]

The IJA killing was barbaric, but the Nazi killing frightens me more because it was so calculated and systematic. The fact they kept such detailed documentation of the holocaust is really chilling. I guess I think organized, efficient slaughter is just more terrfiying than rampaging.

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
The IJA killing was barbaric, but the Nazi killing frightens me more because it was so calculated and systematic. The fact they kept such detailed documentation of the holocaust is really chilling. I guess I think organized, efficient slaughter is just more terrfiying than rampaging.

I completely agree, Boris. The Japanese atrocities, while barbaric, weren't really that different from atrocities commited by rampaging armies throughout history. The Holocaust, however, was a wholly new phenomenon. The cold and mechanical way in which the Nazis went about their murder was absolutely inhuman.

[Frankychan]

Urban,

You've just covered something that I didn't think about. Yeah, it's true that Japan hasn't, to my knowledge, admit to their military's atrocities in WWII. I would be extremely shocked if they did have the Nanjing massacre in their school's textbooks.

But it seems like people here think I'm supporting Japan's deplorable behavior....I'm not. I think my ancestor's who didn't stand up to these murderers are cowards. I don't think there's any honor in butchering whole villages "for sport". Neither do I think using people from Uchinanchu (Okinawa) as human shields is anywhere near justifiable.

What I was trying to accomplish was to have those other posters here who were making rather inappropriate comments realize that 1)Nanjing was disgusting and horrific and 2)THEIR own country (the posters in question) is probably just as guilty in some form of barbarism as well.


Joseph-I see your point. Although Clinton's visit to Africa was a step in the right direction, I personally believe our current administration has to step up the American people's information on everything that's happening there. Unfortunately, the US has its hands dirty in politics in Africa, which I don't think our administration wants to have the general public known (think P. Lumumba)

Boris and Drake- I also agree that BOTH Japan and Germany were sadists in how they carried out the plethora of atrocities. Although it seems that Japanese actions were barbaric and disorganized, I think in some area's it was localized. I've read that they rounded up prisoners for experiments just like the Nazi scientists did.

Japan wanted to be the leader of Asia with the other countries existing as second-class citizens whereas Germany wanted to just exterminate everyone and have a German-only society. (IMHO, of course)

Still though, the lot of 'em are a bunch of sadists.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Joseph
Nanjing is not the only city that the Japanese work over. They hit a few other just as bad.

You guys should read the Ghost Company/Pattoon/something, can't remember the correct title, but Ghost is part of the title.
It is the story of our POW from Bataan and their treatment under the Japanese. One of our guys was killed for drinking water on the road to c. camp. This Japanese soldier took his sword and parted the man head to his shoulder area right down the middle of his head.

Joe, The original report from the POW's themselves is fascinating reading. One can find the report online at the Roosevelt library site.

The brutality of the Japanese against American POWs was indescribable. I wonder why there are not more movies about it.

For that matter, a movie about Nanking would be very hard to watch, but it should be made. The story could center on that one Nazi doctor that did his best to save as many as he could. I believe he saved 300,000 Chinese. Another Shindler.

[GeneralTacticus]

A Nazi doctor? IIRC, there were some people from the International Red Cross who set up a 'safe zone' in the middle of the city. Almost everyone who failed to reach it, died.

[Ramo]

Rabe was a businessman, not a doctor.

[Ramo]

A Nazi doctor? IIRC, there were some people from the International Red Cross who set up a 'safe zone' in the middle of the city. Almost everyone who failed to reach it, died.

A Nazi businessman was the chief person who organized the safe zone.

[GeneralTacticus]

Oh, I see.

[Dis]

The sad thing is they will never make movies about American POW's in the philappines nor Nanking. It just wouldn't be PC to do so.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Joseph

The Nazi killing were bad, however the way the Japanese kill, I think were far worse.

How can you say that?

The way I see it, if you're killing innocent people, then you're killing innocent people, and that's pretty much all there is to it. I mean, there really is no "better" or "worse" way to go about doing it. It's just wrong no matter what, where, when and how.

Hence, by my reckoning, the people who dropped the firebombs on the city of Dresden were in effect no better than those who put people on the trains to Auschwitz.

How is burning people in their homes "better" than sending them off to a camp and burning them there?

How is the indiscrimimate slaughter of an entire city "better" than sorting out certain groups and sending them off to "special treatment"?

I hear people say the nazi killings were worse because they were so cold, calculated and organized, but weren't the allied air operations calculated and organized as well?

Certainly something to think about, isn't it?

[Dis]

The Japanese was less pre-meditated imho. It was more of a mob menatlity by the military. Peer pressure played a big role. But in germany you have soldiers by themselves or with only a few others around committing unspeakable acts of evil. They weren't influenced as much by peer pressure or mob mentality.

[The Pioneer]

I am shocked at how you guys compare what's better and what's worse on such evil atrocities! Ask the victims on what is better or worse!

So long...

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
The IJA killing was barbaric, but the Nazi killing frightens me more because it was so calculated and systematic. The fact they kept such detailed documentation of the holocaust is really chilling. I guess I think organized, efficient slaughter is just more terrfiying than rampaging.

On the contrary, the images of disorganized, chaotic, and perverse mass death mingled with mass rape and mutilation are infinitely more horrifying to me than systematic extermination. I guess it's just a gut feeling either way.

[Dr Strangelove]

One could argue that the Nanjing massacre had the blessing of the Japanese hierarchy, all the way to the emporer, and therefore if not systematic, was at least sanctioned.

What the Japanese did however used to be quite common. Even those civilized British were cpable of ravaging cities they captured in Spain during the Napoleonic wars. Shockingly these cities were populated by citizens of their Spanish allies! Lord Wellington actually ordered his officers to permit it because he thought that the troops deserved the recreation! Similar incidents were repeated in India during the relief of the Sepoy Mutiny and in China during the relief of the Boxer rebellion. I won't go into the activities of French, German, American, Russian and et. forces in this same time period.