Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?

[Bereta_Eder]

Personally I think that #1 was the most fair and just.


#2 had..."political" considerations in it.

Mainly to encourage Turkey to do something.

But I agree with you. 2004 is too soon for Turkey to have made changes it hasn't made for hundrends of years.

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW Turkish air space violations of Greek air space have increased by 300% in 2002.


Some change of attitude Rufus...

And if they don't agree with the sea and air frontiers why aren't they going with us to the Hague International Court of Justice and have the whole thing sorted out as we proposed?

Some changes...

[Pekka]

It would be fun to watch when Turkey joins EU and it keeps 'violating' each other with Greece .
I can't imagine that inside the EU though.. I guess they would just stop..

[Bereta_Eder]

Stop violating us















And it's about oil which is in Greek territorial waters and Turkey wants it.

It's not all fun and games though 'cause Greek fighters intercept the Turkish violating! ones and there are dogfights...

With armed planes.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

We're in agreement about Turkey's fitness for the EU, paiktis. My only objection is that I think the EU has, in trying to be "diplomatic," been deliberately misleading about what it expected of the Turks, and I think that's shameful.

I also think there's a paradox here: Turkey isn't democratic enough to join the EU, but the one thing likely to bring true democracy to Turkey is EU membership. I don't know how to get around that conundrum.

BTW, you misspoke, as did I in agreeing with you: the original Franco-German proposal did not pass. That proposal mandated a review in 2004, with talks to start in 2005 if the review was successful. What passed was a proposal forr a review in 2004, period. This will be read at home as further indifference and manipulation from the EU; I hope I'm wrong, but I would expect the drive for EU membership to lose a lot of support under these conditions -- much more than it would have lost under the F-G proposal.

[Pekka]

Nah, they are just playing with you guys..
It's like a boy who hits a girl.. he likes her, but he doesn't know how to approach her.

[Bereta_Eder]

Pekka, too bad for the Turks we're not into that S&M thing


Rufus, yes the original Franco - German proposal was for 2005. Apparently, there was a change during the "dinner" of the «15». (They call it dinner but it's the #1 negotiating forum of the Summit)

[Pekka]

I'm sure once Turkey gets into EU, we will see a heart warming boy love first time action.. .

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Pekka
Nah, they are just playing with you guys..
It's like a boy who hits a girl.. he likes her, but he doesn't know how to approach her.

Though from the Turk point of view, it's like wanting to date a girl,and finding out that she has a different excuse for not going out with you every time you call. Eventually, you get the message and stop calling.

[Bereta_Eder]

In the same motive, there was a scandal breaking out in Turkey when it was discovered by some newspaper that Greece is the main exporter of SPERM to Turkey and Turkey the most feverous importer. (for artificial conception (sp?)

I knew that foreign relations were a bunch of w@nkeries but this is really pushing to envelop

[Pekka]

Greece, You Bi***! .

Ok I'm off to bed now, it's 12.20 am and I haven't got any sleep yet..

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


Though from the Turk point of view, it's like wanting to date a girl,and finding out that she has a different excuse for not going out with you every time you call. Eventually, you get the message and stop calling.

Well if they want to date Greece/Europe they should indeed stop "calling" that way and get their act together...

We're tired of "threats" of war if something doesn't go their way because of their own fault.

Put up or shut up.


ahem

[Bereta_Eder]

Even though I have to admit that the struggle of its army with its political government is taking its toll.


Example: Turkey had threatened to anex the occupied part of Cyprus if the free part would enter the EU.Now it doesn't say that.

But the increase in air space violations and the fact that Cyprus is still occupied are not "appreciated" to say the least.


Permit me to worry about these first and let my european counterparts worry about Turkey's human rights record. (not that I don't, but priorities).

[MarkG]

rufus,

i'm not intending to do a lecture on you, but passing the copenhangen criteria doesnt mean just passing laws, but also implementing them and being a democratic country with basic human rights. even on passing laws, i believe some of them were passed this week and there are a few more left. the only thing that is for certain implemented is the removal of the death penalty.

in the very end, the winner of the recent elections can not become the prime minister because of a poem!

meanwhile, the greek defence minister meets with the turk, complains again for the air violations and the turk responds: "i'll check out(with the generals) what's going on and get back to you"

[DeepO]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Ok, where is our Hawai ? Cyprus ?

No Malta. What did you think, the EU want them in for their sunny climate? Those tiny islands controls the Mediterean, more than Sicily or Cyprus.

DeepO