Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?

[Japher]

Yes, to get back on topic. I too can see, after that brief thread-jack, cultural issues that may lead to the EU not wanting Turkey to enter the union right now. I was wrong before.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How do you explain the resistance to bi-lingual education then? That seems like a cultural issue, not an economic one.

The problem with "bilingual education" in California was that it was hijacked by a group of left wing "activists" who put the children's political indoctrination first and there education second. Well above 2/3 of the hispanic students enrolled in those programs couldn't speak or read simple English even after they had spent 12 years in "bilingual education". By contrast the huge numbers of Russian, Chinese, & Korean students who also immigrated to California had no trouble learning English, proformed as well as native born students on standardized tests, and were mostly integreated in an average of three to four years.

I refuse to believe the hispanic kids are genetically infearer to the European and Asian kids so that must mean that the method of education being used in "bilingual" classes is what is wrong.

[Andemagne]

wow! 4 pages in 6 hours. this must be hottest thread that I have ever posted.

[Spiffor]

I'm all for the integration of Turkey, but SirRalph pointed correctly it's too early. However, if we don't show more goodwill than we currently do, Turkey might radicalize itself, and all efforts would have been wasted.

The fear of massive immigration is highly irrational, even if it's very present : we have many agreements with countries like Poland, which gives the same moving possibilities to their citizens than a full membership in the EU, and yet it didn't affect migrations significantly. Same is probable with Turkey.

What can Turkey provide ? Strategically, they can be a true asset for the EU (the concept of common military progresses extremely slowly, but progresses nontheless), with their location and their ability to give great numbers for infantry.
Plus, if their economy progresses, they can be a great help to Eu's economy. Remember 20 years ago, how poor Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland were in comparison to the rest of the EU ? Except for Greece, they have all caught back, and now participate in EU economy as equals. Agreed, Turkey has to progress a bit outside the EU, because the investements needed to better their economy are much higher than what Ireland needed.


All the Turks I know of really want Turkey to be part of the EU, and get more disappointed every time it's postponed (granted, all Turks I know live in Germany). I don't doubt Turk's motivation to enter the EU any second.

[Andemagne]

to add to my point: yes turks would have their word to say in the affairs of the union. I don't want that. heck, if someone cared to ask my oppinnion about those slav nations joining, I would say NO to them too. slavs are dishonest people, I don't need that to anything.
and those possible imigrants. I don't want them here. we don't need them. so I'm a racist, so what! I think with my own brain and since when has that been bad.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Andemagne
to add to my point: yes turks would have their word to say in the affairs of the union. I don't want that. heck, if someone cared to ask my oppinnion about those slav nations joining, I would say NO to them too. slavs are dishonest people, I don't need that to anything.
and those possible imigrants. I don't want them here. we don't need them. so I'm a racist, so what! I think with my own brain and since when has that been bad.

I too can't bear these evil Finns who want to have a say in the union. These Untermenschen sould go to hell

[Bereta_Eder]

My unbiased two euro cents.

I see no major problem in Turkey joining the EU provided they adopt its values of human rights, real democracy and respect for the law both international and domestic.

A problem for the EU would be the funds for Turkey that are now provided for mainly by the US. Also if Turkey enters, the financial burden will be on the EU but since military issues remain on national level the US would still use her for whatever it wants.

Hence the EU gets all the financial burden, but fewer of the geopolitical value of Turkey.

And no, I don't think it has tried to change anything but a few facades. Human rights violations continue unfortunately, army still has a strong say as ever in politics and interntional laws vis a vis Greece are still not being respected. (i.e. air space violations)

If all those are fixed, then by all means welcome Turkey.

It would be nice for us and for Turkey to ease down on military spending at last.

[Andemagne]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Same is probable with Turkey.

only probably. why risk it?

[Andemagne]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I too can't bear these evil Finns who want to have a say in the union. These Untermenschen sould go to hell

spiffor:
ok, I try to remember that you said that.

*I don't want, that any turk has anything to say in my affairs. whats bad in that?
*I don't want any turks here, to my own land. whats bad in that?
we have near 10% unemployment rate allready, what would they do for living? even our own people can't make a living, so how could some foreigners?

now that we have started calling eachother names, do you know a good word for person who is anti-racist?

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by paiktis22
My unbiased two euro cents.

you really crack me up

I see no major problem in Turkey joining the EU provided they adopt its values of human rights, real democracy and respect for the law both international and domestic.

I agree. Greece should do the same though, the sooner the better.

btw., The Economist has a feature on this... 'Turkey belongs in Europe' all over front page. Too bad its subscription only

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by VetLegion
btw., The Economist has a feature on this... 'Turkey belongs in Europe' all over front page. Too bad its subscription only

That shouldn't stop you from posting it.

[Dinner]

In the long run Turkey would be good for Europe but it might just have to let go of Kurdistan before the civil war will end and Turkey's human right's record can really improve.

[VetLegion]

That shouldn't stop you from posting it.

I dont have the subscription.

[Pekka]

I voted no. Reasons: Economic situation is bad in Turkey, it will drag EU even more than ever. And the most importat one: Human Rights. Turkey is not poster boy in human rights exactly, quite the opposite.
When these things are better, then sure, it's ok to negotiate about it. Before that? Why bother.

I was thinking they should negotiate it now, but after Turkey demanded instead of asking it, the hell with it.

When they meet the demands, then yes. EU does not have to bend the rules for Turkey, or anyone else.
But ultimately sure.. I can't see problems why they couldn't join, just not now.

[aaglo]

No

If the Turkish government has to 'ponder on' wether torturing should be illegalized or not.

And that pretty much tells me everything I want to know their government and politics...