Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?

[Ned]

Originally posted by DaShi
The US wants to join the EU eventually.

Hah. What we want is the US, the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ and Canada to merge into one Anglo-Irish superstate.

[Ned]

I don't get the Turk impulse to join the EU. I thought they might want to form a Turkish Federation that is composed of all Turkish-speaking peoples, including, of course, East Turkestan.

[The Vagabond]

It's nice to see that when it come to real matters, the Europeans' instinct of self-preservation prevails over their political correctness.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Andemagne
... slavs are dishonest people, I don't need that to anything.
and those possible imigrants. I don't want them here. we don't need them. so I'm a racist, so what! I think with my own brain and since when has that been bad.

Truly, you are a very very evil Finn, Andemagne.

[Bereta_Eder]

Peace with our brothers the Russians

[The Vagabond]

[evil_mode] Some time ago the Serbs gave shelter in Kosovo to a small community of poor Albanians. The result is well known. Want to repeat the Kosovo experiment on a greater scale? Then admit Turkey to the EU. [/evil_mode]

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Peace with our brothers the Russians

[Pekka]

Vagabond, well what do you think EU is? It's not a social program and free money for all, let the whole world celebrate crap. And economy situation is not that deciding to me either, they have potential and they can work hard, but questions about human rights we can not by pass. They must adapt to us, we don't have to adapt to others. If someone wants to play, they have to bring toys too, or at least be nice and have friendly attitude.

That's what I think. And when that is settled, then Turkey welcome, join us.

[Pekka]

Vagabond, sorry, I read your post wrong .

[The Vagabond]

Yes, you did, Pekka.

But your reasons for the rejection are certainly more humanistic than mine.

[Pekka]

I don't know what you would require for letting them in, but it must be something horrible and inhumane .

[The Vagabond]

Yeah, sometimes even most humane things can be demanded only in a most inhumane manner.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Jeez, 128 posts by the time I saw this; I hate it when these threads start when I'm asleep. Anyway...

Originally posted by Ned
I don't get the Turk impulse to join the EU. I thought they might want to form a Turkish Federation that is composed of all Turkish-speaking peoples, including, of course, East Turkestan.

Not all of Turkey does. The nationalists (a/k/a crypto-fascists) don't, and they're still a powerful presence (they were part of the last government, and only missed being in the current parliament because their votes were split betwen 2 parties).

Other Turks do, for one or more of the following reasons:
1) A stable currency would be a welcome relief
2) A free-trade zone with W. Europe would lower the price of European goods here
3) Membership in the EU may be the only thing that finally disempowersTurkey's military, and curbs its authoritarian streak in general.

The thing to understand is that most Turks are dismayed, to at least some extent, at the failure of the Turkish power structure to live out the European values they pay lip-service to; they ar equally dismayed at their inability to change things from within, thanks to the heavy hand of the military, the exclusionist nature of Turkish politics, and widespread systemic corruption. They see EU membership as a way to save Turkey from itself.

That may not be the EU's problem. But it is why ordinary Turks want in. And it bears repeating: nothing about Turkey right now -- its economy, its recent flirtation with military dictatorship, its horrendous human rights record -- is actually that much different from the case of Greece at the moment it was admitted.

I think the EU is right to be suspicious of Turkey's commitment to the Copenhagen criteria; Turkey's passed the requisite laws, but not enough time has lapsed to judge their implementation. But I think the same can be said of many E. European countries who will be given definite dates today and tomorrow, while Turkey will not; that's causing a lot of resentment here, and rightly.

Finally, why should the EU want Turkey? The biggest reason is that Turkey is a big, underdeveloped market that currently isn't freely trading with Europe, and that makes foreign investment maddeningly difficult. Turkey joining the EU, and opening its markets fully to both European consumer goods and European investment, would be a lot like having Mexico in NAFTA -- something the US has benefitted from enourmously.

Just my 2 cents.

[HershOstropoler]

I agree mostly with you Rufus but 2 things:

"...is actually that much different from the case of Greece at the moment it was admitted."

What ? The only one that holds is about the economy.

"Turkey joining the EU, and opening its markets fully to both European consumer goods and European investment, would be a lot like having Mexico in NAFTA -- something the US has benefitted from enourmously."

The present EU-Turkey agreements go beyond what NAFTA has to offer.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
I agree mostly with you Rufus but 2 things:

"...is actually that much different from the case of Greece at the moment it was admitted."

What ? The only one that holds is about the economy.

Greece was a military dictatorship -- The Colonel's Junta, remember? -- a scant six years before they were admitted to the EU.

"Turkey joining the EU, and opening its markets fully to both European consumer goods and European investment, would be a lot like having Mexico in NAFTA -- something the US has benefitted from enourmously."

The present EU-Turkey agreements go beyond what NAFTA has to offer.

Sorry, that's not true on either end. European consumer goods cost a fortune here, because Turkey's allowed to slap on ultra-high tariffs. They would not be able to do that in the EU. Similarly, European business -- especially manufacturers -- have to contend with so much red tape to set up a "foreign" business that many do not bother; that, too, would be different under the EU.