Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Sprayber


They want even start talking to the Turks Boris. The Turks should already be aware of changes that they are going to have to make. But as of yet, they aren't even being alowed the opportunity to discuss things.

Bollocks. We do not have FORMAL ACCESSION TALKS with Turkey. That's usually 2-3 years before entry.

We have an association agreement, we have a customs union, Turkey recieves aid to establish rule of law, Turkish migrant workers enjoy a preferred status in the EU, and there is a permanent dialogue about those issues, not least in the Association bodies.

But why would I expect anyone here to know or bother with facts.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler


Bollocks. We do not have FORMAL ACCESSION TALKS with Turkey. That's usually 2-3 years before entry.

We have an association agreement, we have a customs union, Turkey recieves aid to establish rule of law, Turkish migrant workers enjoy a preferred status in the EU, and there is a permanent dialogue about those issues, not least in the Association bodies.

But why would I expect anyone here to know or bother with facts.

Then why all the anti-turkish sentiment being expressed? If you give all that money away, why not actually get something for it by brining the Turks in and forceing them to change. I'd like to begin ACCESSION TALKS with the EU if they give me money and i get to do whatever I want.

[Lemmy]

Then why all the anti-turkish sentiment being expressed? If you give all that money away, why not actually get something for it by brining the Turks in and forceing them to change. I'd like to begin ACCESSION TALKS with the EU if they give me money and i get to do whatever I want.

There is an agreement, the EU gives them money, the establish rule of law, if they don't they don't get money...
So they can't do whatever they want.
And when Turkey is in the EU, forcing something will be more difficult, since the Turks will be able to vote for it. And i'm not sure if the EU has the right/power to force things.

[HershOstropoler]

"Then why all the anti-turkish sentiment being expressed?"

Some reject Turkey per se, for others like me it has just been incredibly frustrating to see Turkey's corrupt and incompetent leadership, in change with the military, piss away one chance after another.

"If you give all that money away, why not actually get something for it by brining the Turks in and forceing them to change."

You need a minimum level to start from. We need eg independent courts to enforce the precedence of Community law. The EU is a protofederal structure, not some kind of picnic club where you invite people and say "we'll see if he fits in".

[Dinner]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
I have stopped serious comments in this threads as it is useless. Your post is an example of the absurdity. The "cultural" divisions you talk about - anglo-hispanic, anglo-french - you may have realised that the original ones, not the colonial derivatives, ARE in the EU. These are mostly language divisions - if you want a real cultural gap, try the muslim world. If you show me the muslim state/territory the US has successfully integrated, fine, I'll be impressed....

Now days we consider the British, French, and Spanish to be quite similar but during the 18th and 19th centuries the idea that a solidly Protestent country could integrate large Catholic areas without having massive social unrest was considered a great challenge.

The very fact that we now think of Protestents and Catholics as having more in common then not in common makes me hopeful that in the next hundred years people may begin to see Christians and Muslims as having more in common then not.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
We are not against Turkey joining the EU.

That's not entirely true given the fact that SM refers to the EU as a group of Christian nations.

[Saint Marcus]

If you give all that money away, why not actually get something for it by brining the Turks in and forceing them to change.

first they have to change, then they can join. Not the other way around.

[Lemmy]

That's not entirely true given the fact that SM refers to the EU as a group of Christian nations.

Just 2 people speaking for the entire EU...not realizing other people might feel different about these things

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lemmy
Just 2 people speaking for the entire EU...not realizing other people might feel different about these things

That's these threads work.

[Saint Marcus]

That's not entirely true given the fact that SM refers to the EU as a group of Christian nations.

I hardly consider most European countries to be religious, let alone Christian. We are far less religious than the US, for instance.

I'm not saying culture is fixed and will for always bar Turkish entry into the Union. I'm saying Turkey's culture first needs to change on certain fundamentic issues, and then they can join (if all other demands are met).

Also, I said I'm for Bosnia's entry into the Union, when the nation is rebuild. That country is quite muslim.

[DinoDoc]

Then why did you consider the fact that Greece is Christian relevent enough to mention.

PS What is particularly European about Cyprus?

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"Then why all the anti-turkish sentiment being expressed?"

Some reject Turkey per se, for others like me it has just been incredibly frustrating to see Turkey's corrupt and incompetent leadership, in change with the military, piss away one chance after another.

It's to the people that reject Turkey out of hand that I'm ranting to. By all means impose whatever conditions the EU deems necessary, but to reject them because they are Turks or because all their country isnt in Europe is stupid. If, as Marcus states, you have to be European enough to join then I think the EU is already headed for trouble. Especially in those places in Europe where muslims are increasing in population.

[Combat Ingrid]

This thread reminded me of this picture: the world situation 2050 AD

[Saint Marcus]

PS What is particularly European about Cyprus?

Cause it's quite Greek.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


Cause it's quite Greek.

Say that in Northern Cyprus.