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Thanks for the offer of help Fez, you're sweet, but you don't need to do that for me. I'm not arguing that all ice shelves are receding(I believe I wrote "ice shelfs have been receding in PARTS of antartica"), as Ned said (heh, rhymed) shelves to the north have been receding. This link might help you sweetie. At least I found it interesting. http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/News_and.../19970729.html
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Originally posted by Fez
That is bullcrap. Ice shelfs are not receding in Antarctica. Infact ice shelfs have grown steadily in the past thirty years. Your are so full of it. I suggest staying out of this. If you need the source I will gladly spend my time look for it. Right now I have to study for a final.
Here's one for the melting side, whole bunch more
there with the same theme, havn't found any
gettin' thicker sources.
Though increased glacier growth would promote increased iceberg calving.Comment
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Is the earth warming? Probably yes. Will Kyoto do absolutely ANYTHING to stop it? Probably no. Will Kyoto cost HUGE amounts of money & jobs? Assuredly yes.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Will "made at home plans" stop it, absolutely notOriginally posted by Oerdin
Is the earth warming? Probably yes. Will Kyoto do absolutely ANYTHING to stop it? Probably no.
One lobby group with a bucket of cash and they'll crumble quicker than a politican's promises after
being elected.Comment
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Ozz:
1) Yes, if every country in the world ratified Kyoto it would make a difference
2) No, not every country in the world ratified Kyoto
3) In fact, the vast majority of countries did not
4) Since it's not a global treaty, it will not work, and instead will just transfer pollution (and jobs) from Kyoto to non-Kyoto countries
5) A made-in-Canada solution would probably do far less than Kyoto would if everyone ratified it (which they did not), but a plan that would educate people on how to save energy, mandating all equipment be as non-pollutant as possible, etc certainly will help just as much as Kyoto would, without smashing our economy into bits"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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Ummm no... more ice has not been melting. Ice has been increasing in size. How dumb can you get? There are actually satellite photos from the past thirty years proving greens and environuts wrong.Originally posted by Ozz
Here's one for the melting side, whole bunch more
there with the same theme, havn't found any
gettin' thicker sources.
Though increased glacier growth would promote increased iceberg calving.
So lets kill the economy with your arbitrary kyoto protocol that actually allows developing countries to pollute more. Just great.Will "made at home plans" stop it, absolutely not
One lobby group with a bucket of cash and they'll crumble quicker than a politican's promises after
being elected.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Excuse me? You didn't just say that did you?Originally posted by Asher
Ozz:
1) Yes, if every country in the world ratified Kyoto it would make a difference
The current situation is not set in stone. There is no reason why other nations can't be brought in in the future and if you believe it can make a difference then perhaps its worth fighting for. Currently 37% of the worlds emitters have ratified and many countries are still considering. The fact that the US rejected it does not mean that it can't sign on in the future and the same for any other country.Comment
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If the US signs on in the future, it will experience a major recession. So it won't happen. And who would sign a stupid protocol like that besides Al Gore?
Where do you get that number from? Out of thin air?urrently 37% of the worlds emitters have ratified and many countries are still considering.
The only thing Kyoto would do is kill the economy. It wouldn't save anything.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Sorry, if you think the countries that rejected it now are going to have a change of heart in the future...well...
Plus, it's not a matter of those countries rejecting it. The developing nations are exempt from Kyoto as it is, and they're the ones using outdated technology just because it's cheap, even though it pollutes more..."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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Sorry Fez, my fault, should have posted it.
edit - wrong siteComment
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Still what does that prove? It is a fact that the majority of countries will not sign it because of its arbitrary policies. Russia looks like it will fall out of it because it sees the light. If it restricts its economy to the extent Kyoto proposes it will be damaged the most.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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The thing is that Kyoto was written with the idea that since this is a novel attempt mistakes will be made. So, there is a system within Kyoto to change its policies. It is not a static thing. If nations sign on and find that the negative effects are too great then policy can be adjusted.Comment
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Only this only happens if it's in the interest of most countries, or in this case, most of Europe.Originally posted by gsmoove23
The thing is that Kyoto was written with the idea that since this is a novel attempt mistakes will be made. So, there is a system within Kyoto to change its policies. It is not a static thing. If nations sign on and find that the negative effects are too great then policy can be adjusted.
For example, Canada is currently not getting credit for our clean gas exports to the US which replace coal generation in California and other western states. We've applied (repeatedly) to get these clean gas export credits, but most of Europe keeps saying we can't get credit for it -- which would reduce our emissions target by 70 megatonnes.
The reason is, of course, if we can't meet the credits on our own we get to buy them from people. Guess who.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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And yet if Canada bows out of the treaty that would be considered a serious blow to it. Canada in the treaty would be a nice little FU to the US, It is up to canadien leaders to use this as a bargaining chip.Comment
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Weaning the world off fossil fuels is a vital step, regardless of the environmental and economic arguments.Comment
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