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  • Canadian parliament backs Kyoto ratification plan

    OTTAWA, Dec 10 (Reuters) - The Canadian Parliament voted on Tuesday to support government plans to ratify the Kyoto protocol on cutting greenhouse gases, overriding opponents who say the treaty will hurt Canada's economy.

    The 195-77 vote by the House of Commons lower chamber has no binding power on the government of Prime Minister Jean Chretien. But it reflects his government's determination to press ahead with speedy ratification, in stark contrast to the position in the United States, which opposes the pact.

    Chretien said on Tuesday he intended to ratify the treaty do so by the end of the year.

    The vote puts Canada squarely at odds with the United States, which walked away from the Kyoto treaty last year on the grounds it would damage the U.S. economy. Critics say it would be suicide for Canadian firms to commit to the costly process of cutting emissions when U.S. competitors did not.

    The outcome of the vote was never in question since Chretien had ordered legislators from his ruling Liberal Party to support the government. Two of the four opposition parties also backed the idea.

    "It's really excellent, a good indication of the wishes of the country and the Canadian people," a beaming Environment Minister David Anderson told reporters after the vote.

    The Kyoto debate now moves to the government's plans to implement the accord, which obliges Canada to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 6 percent from 1990 levels by 2012.

    If no action is taken, Canadian emissions by 2010 are predicted to be 33 percent above the 1990 level.

    Industry groups and several provinces, particularly energy-rich Alberta, say cutting greenhouse gases by the amount required under the accord would cause serious economic damage.

    Ottawa, which has already softened its plan to implement Kyoto, said on Monday it would cap the amount that businesses would have to pay to meet their targets. Opposition parties said this could cost billions of dollars and business groups complain the plan is too vague.

    The opposition Canadian Alliance party, its heartland in Alberta, blasted the ratification plan as "a gross mistake for Canada" and said the cap could cost billions, given what it called Ottawa's appalling record of financial mismanagement.

    "It's an incredibly stupid decision and without precedent to adopt an international accord with potentially enormous economic ramifications for this country and to do so without a plan," said Alliance leader Stephen Harper.

    "Already with the rhetoric we have a significant investment chill in some parts of this economy."

    Even some members of Chretien's cabinet are unhappy. Federal Health Minister Anne McLellan, who comes from Alberta, had criticized the government's handling of the debate but in the end she voted to support ratification. About a dozen Liberal legislators missed the vote.
    So what do you think? How stiff is the opposition in Alberta and will thier be any problems enforcing the treaty because of it?
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

  • #2
    Can the United States look forward to eventually adding a former Canadian province or two?



    Gatekeeper
    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

    "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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    • #3
      If the only opposition were in Alberta, it would not matter. We would be over-ruled by a vast majority of the country.

      However, there is growing opposition outside of Alberta. What remains to be seen is if a lame duck PM can force the issue through when senior cabinet ministers have misgivings. Not to mention the provinces of Alberta, Ontario, and maybe Quebec.

      In a queer development, the Premier of Alberta dropped legal opposition to the accord beacuse... 'Chretein's replacement might be more reasonable' or something like that.

      The only thing I can say for sure is there is more and horse feathers flying around about this issue.
      (\__/)
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      • #4
        I wonder why the Libers got there wish???
        Former President, Vice-president and Foreign Minister of the Apolyton Civ2-Democracy Games as 123john321

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        • #5
          Finally a step in the right direction. Canada should show the US how its done.
          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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          • #6
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              You mean, how to force through an unpopular, panicky measure because it will make you look good in the international press?
              No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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              • #8
                Oh wait. We don't want Canada to appear like a unilateralist!
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                • #9
                  The outcome of the vote was never in question since Chretien had ordered legislators from his ruling Liberal Party to support the government.
                  Sweet, glorious democracy.

                  He even got Liberal MPs from Alberta, like Anne McLellan, to vote for it if they wanted to keep their jobs -- even though something like 72% of the people in her riding oppose it.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                  • #10
                    If only we could seperate the good reform ideas like recall from the rest of their crap.

                    You should not be doing something that the overwhelming majority of your constituents oppose, it really puts the lie to representative democracy.

                    Let's face it, 'write a letter to your MP' is a joke. We have an elected (kinda) dictatorship.
                    "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
                    "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
                    "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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                    • #11
                      Sanity has prevailed with this victory of democracy against the special interests of big business. The majority of Canadians wanted Kyoto ratified and thankfully it was ratified.

                      Golfing since 67

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tingkai
                        Sanity has prevailed with this victory of democracy against the special interests of big business. The majority of Canadians wanted Kyoto ratified and thankfully it was ratified.

                        Hmm.

                        It's a victory of democracy when Chretien orders his party to ratify it, against their constituents wishes?

                        The majority of Canadains want Kyoto, when the last poll result showed support nationwide at 44% for it and dropping fast?

                        Very interesting.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                        • #13


                          Page 2:

                          As you may know, the Kyoto Accord or Protocol is an agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Under this agreement, Canada has committed to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions to 6 percent below 1990 levels by the period from 2008 to 2012. The Government of Canada is currently considering ratifying the agreement, thereby making it binding on our country. Thinking of the Kyoto Protocol as it now stands, how do you think the Government of Canada should proceed ?
                          Withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol and develop a made-in-Canada plans for reducing Greenhouse Gas emissions: 49%
                          Ratify Kyoto: 43%
                          Do nothing: 1%
                          Don't know: 7%
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                          • #14
                            Yes Asher, but those who do not agree are selfish, uncaring people. Therefore, they don't count.
                            (\__/)
                            (='.'=)
                            (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                            • #15
                              Does this mean more Canadian jobs might come to the States? Y'know, businesses fleeing onerous new measures imposed on them to comply w/Kyoto?

                              I bet they're more likely to go to China or India, nations with el cheapo labor costs, few environmental restrictions and, above all, aren't affected period by Kyoto.

                              Guess that's what happens when a supposed global environmental accord like Kyoto actually only applies to a patchwork of nations, leaving nice big "Pollute here!" areas open.

                              Gatekeeper
                              "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                              "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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