Does Europe (exlcuding the UK) produce any good music?

[Buck Birdseed]

Maturity, when used in your sense of "old infirm geezer music" is hardly a desirable quality in music, is it? You simply don't want music capable of making people move, I gather from your pounding head comment...

I, on my hand, want music that's raw and that accesses those nerve centres that convey involountary movement. When this is combined with intricacy, gusto in performance and brilliant, multi-layered production, I'm more than happy. And, frankly, since about 1969 there's been very little commercial music indeed that satisfies both qualities... Which is why I like recent Hip-Hop so much. Timbaland is the new Phil Spector, a production genius miles ahead of his contemporaries and innovating on every level, rhythmically, sonically, melodically... Quite simply, Hip-Hop has all the best hooks in the business (together with Dancehall).

I'm gonna quote a swedish rock critic, Per Bjurman, who paraphrased Joe Strummer's comment about Bruce Springsteen: "If you don't like Missy Elliott, you don't like music".

Jaakko: I firmly believe that the current wave of hip-hop is a return to old-skool values. Since about 2000, the music is again centered on the dancefloor after a hiatus of almost 20 years of Golden Age and Gangsta...

[Buck Birdseed]

Oh, and I couldn't give a rats arse about the lyrics. Surely the meaning of music is, like, music, isn't it?

[Jaakko]

Isn't that a little hysterical Zylka?

[Jaakko]

BB - maybe I should check out some new stuff then. Any recommendations?

[Japher]

"A beautiful thing never gives so much pain as does failing to hear and see it."
-Michelangelo

I wish I liked more art and music.

Rap and R&B use to be better, but now it is all crap.

"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up."
-Pablo Picasso


So true.

I don't think you have grasped the concept of art well enough Saint Marcus. Even if you don't like it, it can still be considered art.

It can still be considered art by those who can see it that way. You can't like everything.

I think Saint Marcus has grasped the concept of art well. He sees that why others like it, that he may not. Same as you have, Jaakko.


Personally, I feel that art should be about doing something because you can, not doing something because you can't.

That is why some rap is not taken seriously and some artist shunned for their lack of ability.

Crap on plate is not art, unless that artist chose to be simple and did not put crap on a plate because that is all they can do.

[Japher]

Jakkoo, try Michel Camilo (spelling?) great beat, good music, exceptional skill in his piano playing. "One More Once" is the best album to come out in a long time, from any country.

[Buck Birdseed]

Originally posted by Jaakko
BB - maybe I should check out some new stuff then. Any recommendations?

I'd start with the new Missy Elliott album, which combines loads and loads of old-school ideas and indeed quite a few samples with the very cutting edge of production. It sort of brings together the feel of much early-eighties Hip-Hop and the feel of the last few years, and is thematically much more benign as well.

[Jaakko]

Japher -

I think Saint Marcus has grasped the concept of art well. He sees that why others like it, that he may not. Same as you have, Jaakko.

I guess what gets me is his tendency to filter even this subject through his anti-American eyeglasses.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by The Pioneer


Nobody claims otherwise. Good Rap comes from the US but you should know that there are literally thousands of different styles out there that you never heard of or never will because of the language/cultural barriers!

So long...

@Paikti ine ok i geusi mou stin mousiki?

Mia hara

BTW I'll listen to scyladika. However I diqualify them, give me a good fest and I'll be amongst the first to get up on the tables dancing (some cutties by my side required of course )

About Bregovic, he's quite popular. I guess also having the soundtrack for "Underground" was in his favour as was his working together with Dalaras.

However his mixture of Yugoslav and Yugoslav Gypsie music is a very mellowed down sample from what I hear. In his country he is considered rather mediorce and a "copycat" of other more "real" schemes.

But I also like his music a lot.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed


I think it's a mistake to look on Hip-Hop as an isolated phenomenon.

Definitely.

Also, where Hip-Hop is the main form of young urban expression, which it isn't in France or Germany, it can successfully amalgamate with local music to create something that transcends both original styles.

Exactly.

Even when it is not the main form of young urban expression but rather a marginalized young urban genre and a subculture it can still transcent to something new, both musically and lyrically. It has in Greece.

[The Pioneer]

Copycat or not, he's the only one that has projected this music style internationally.

Me thinks that there is a lot more to music than the popular english dominated world of MTV!

So long...

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by The Pioneer
Copycat or not, he's the only one that has projected this music style internationally.

Yep. Although I think it is always the mellowed down versions of any genre that make it out to the international scene. And I think that's no accident.
Even though how could "Kalasnikof" be considered mellowed down, I can't say

[Dauphin]

With everyone here so well up on types of music, can someone explain to me what type of music "Happy Handbag" style is. Only, I read it in a review of a garage album and it seemed a bit strange.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed


I'd start with the new Missy Elliott album, which combines loads and loads of old-school ideas and indeed quite a few samples with the very cutting edge of production. It sort of brings together the feel of much early-eighties Hip-Hop and the feel of the last few years, and is thematically much more benign as well.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cutting edge as in painfully slow bpm, primitive drawn out bass, minimal high end and midrange to compliment (which at that point is about the last ditch you have at any meaningful rythm), and an overweight slug slowly but surely slurring out a brilliant and verbally deficient set of values best left in a filthy ghetto. Please don't tell me there are a few 80's cover songs included as well? TALENT!

This bullsh*t is meant only to stimulate basic raw emotions in those with a lack of understanding for anything remotely meaningful or complicated. For that I will give it credit - as they have obviously marketed it well. Just look at the average thug wannabe loser trying to aggressively chant and bob along to what he can keep up with, and you'll understand.

[Buck Birdseed]

Complex, imaginite systems of rhythmical components is hardly something I'd expect someone with your background to understand, Zylka. You do realise people outside your little circle want music that actually stirrs, not dulls? I mean, you're after something with no hooks, no imagination, a flat, lifeless beat and brain-dulling easy-listening rills that you need Exctasy to be able to appreciate at all. It's a bit sad really.