Does Europe (exlcuding the UK) produce any good music?

[Saint Marcus]

Hip Hop is an American artform.

Hip hop...artform? but there's no denying it's 100% American! No self respecting nation would claim "ownership" of such a abomination of the music industry.

good hip hop

like Eminem? or P.Diddy? Missy Elliot?

You can have your "good hip hop". I'd give anything to avoid hearing that crap again for the rest of my life. It's absolutely horrible.

To be honest, it was fairly respectable when it just started out, but now that it's part of the great american pop culture, it's just awful.

[Buck Birdseed]

Originally posted by Hoek
Hip Hop is an American artform.

I think it's a mistake to look on Hip-Hop as an isolated phenomenon. I mean, it's basically a slightly bastardised jamaican-style Deejay toast originally (done over Funk instead of Reggae), and it's constantly been influenced by foreign styles and influenced them throughout its existence. Dancehall, Soca, and most recently Bhangra have all helped progress hip-hop, and borrowed heavily from it. Which is part of why it's remained vital for several decades...

Also, where Hip-Hop is the main form of young urban expression, which it isn't in France or Germany, it can successfully amalgamate with local music to create something that transcends both original styles. I'm quite impressed by some of the stuff that's coming out of Kenya, for instance, because it's very much unique and rather Taraab-like. As such, it can serve as a conduit for bringing in influential new beats to the urban community at large.

That said, I dislike much european Rap. But it might be a starting point for disaffected youth to build from, just like Blues was fifty years ago.

[Buck Birdseed]

It's just too difficult music for you, St. Marcus. I'm sure you litsen mostly to rhythmically and harmoinically simplistic pop with no ambitions, but some of us what music that pushes boundaries.

[Buck Birdseed]

Also note how it's apparently perfectly acceptable to laugh at Hip-Hop but if I laughed at the awful simplistic indie and **** I'm sure you listen to I'm sure I'd be derided for it.

[Saint Marcus]

It's just too difficult music for you, St. Marcus. I'm sure you litsen mostly to rhythmically and harmoinically simplistic pop with no ambitions, but some of us what music that pushes boundaries.

Also note how it's apparently perfectly acceptable to laugh at Hip-Hop but if I laughed at the awful simplistic indie and **** I'm sure you listen to I'm sure I'd be derided for it.

pop? indie?

let's see what's in my cd player at the moment, shall we? hmmm...Andrea Bocelli's Romanza, Handel's The Messiah (that time of year after all), and a soft rock cd with songs my girlfriend wrote, played and sang.

pop and indie my ass.

[Buck Birdseed]

And you've got the nerve to complain about Hip-Hop? Andrea Boccelli is a second-rate hack with all the nerve of a gentle stroll through the park at lunchtime. You can't handle music with a bit of guts, that's all, because you're a weak, feeble-minded individual. No fault in that, but don't deride others 'cause they like music that's not been covered in the thirteen layers of sugar gloss you need to distance yourself from real feeling and kinetics, because it scares you.

[Kropotkin]

Also note that Buck B. runs the music fundie fraction of al-quaida...

[Saint Marcus]

And you've got the nerve to complain about Hip-Hop? Andrea Boccelli is a second-rate hack with all the nerve of a gentle stroll through the park at lunchtime. You can't handle music with a bit of guts, that's all, because you're a weak, feeble-minded individual. No fault in that, but don't deride others 'cause they like music that's not been covered in the thirteen layers of sugar gloss you need to distance yourself from real feeling and kinetics, because it scares you.

putting a dozen cuss words in one sentence isn't "a bit of guts". It's just stupid. Rappers reason that if you can't think of something to say, cuss. Lo and behold, the kids love it. Surprise surprise.

Also funny you didn't comment on Handel though. Too mature for you? I'm sure you can buy the new Eminem cd from a nearby store, kiddo. Enjoy.

[Jaakko]

People who think their taste in music is the correct one are funny.

[Saint Marcus]

I appreciate all kinds of music. but for some reason, my body is physically incapable of appreciating rap music. makes my bowels move, head pound...

[Zylka]

Agreed with Markus, I can look at any genre with respect but hip-hop. It's absolute garbage appreciated mostly by kids destined to drop out of high school. It's too bad BB has somehow become caught up in it as well, but the fanciful and meaningless vocabulary of his critiques hints at some degree of tragic braindamage. I could write a new pro-centre with that sort of neocultural hyper post fusion metaphysical bullsh*t!

HOW AMBITIOUS

[Saint Marcus]

Zylka

take 8 Mile for instance. Rap-fanatics praised it's great raps. I saw the movie, but all I could hear were people cussing at and talking trash about other people. And that's considered art?

[Japher]

There is no more good music being made anywhere.

Europe especially.

[Jaakko]

I don't think you have grasped the concept of art well enough Saint Marcus. Even if you don't like it, it can still be considered art.
Hell, personally I detest modern rap & hip hop (I'm old school all the way), but I don't presume to tell others how wrong they are for listening to it.

[Zylka]

On the same level that you could take a sh*t on a styrofoam plate and call it art?