Ways Germany could have won WWII

[Jaguar]

All right, so most of my knowledge is from civ scenarios. But I still don't believe Russia had that many bombers.

[Serb]

Where is David and his brilliant theory- "we saved your asses, we've won the war"?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
All right, so most of my knowledge is from civ scenarios.

You don't have to say more.

But I still don't believe Russia had that many bombers.

It comes from guy which knowledge based on 'civ scenarios. '

[Az]

Jaguar Warrior, did you know that Russia had railways more than between Leningrad and Moscow during WWII?

[Serb]

Ok, my five cents to this highly intlectual disscusion:
1) Hitler couldn't won WW2 as long as he attacked SU.
2) The calim that locals on occupied territories would have treat Germans better if there would no genocide against them is incorect. In 1812 Napoleon thought that his forces will be treat as liberators of feodal serfs who suffered from Tzar atrocities (Russia abolished feodal serf system and gave freedom to peasants only in 1861). Insted of this those serf among their masters (aristocrats) kicked Napoleon's ass. It's Russian mentality. You will never understand this.
3) No attack SU untill 1944 or smth like this is bs too. The main goal for Stalin was to win as much time as possible to re-arm Red Army. We had unmatched examples of weaponry before the war. T-34, Il-2, our regular artilery was the best artilery in the world not to mention Katyusha (btw, no one had missile artilery in 1941 except SU, no to mention this techonlogy was known and was tested in 1936 by SU) If Hitler didn't attacked in 1941, in 1942 he faced absolutely new Red Army- equiped (in needed quantities) with far superior weaponry then Wermacht.
4) US, SU and Germany would had A-bomb at the same time, if there was no war vs. SU. Incorect to. If SU didn't lost 27 000 000 mlns people and if Russia wasn'r burned by the war, if its industrial capacity wasn't so hard damaged- we've gained this toy first. Even so hard damaged country was able to win space race with USA- a country which weren't damaged at all during war. Considering if there was no war at East, no losses, no damage to industry- SU kick everyone asses even now.
5) I'm dead drunk right now. My congrats to all Muslim people of the World. Have a nice holiday guys. I don't know what you think about this, but we- Orthodox Christians celabrate this holiday too in solidary. I am absolutely serious. I wouldn't type the name of this holiday, bcs I guess I'll type it wrong on Enlish and somebody will find this offensive.
Have a nice holiday.
EDITED.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Azazel
Jaguar Warrior, did you know that Russia had railways more than between Leningrad and Moscow during WWII?

I guess no his knowledge based on 'civ scenarios. '
EDITED.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Kontiki


Something tells me that even if Hitler didn't open the eastern front, sooner or later Germany and the SU were going to come to blows. As for declaring war on the US, I think jimmytrick dealt with that. By allying himself with Japan, Hitler pretty much sealed his fate vis-a-vis the US. In fact, I have a feeling that the US would have gotten involved in Europe eventually anyway.

I am not sure about that. There was a general anti-war feeling in the US before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt had trouble convincing Americans to help the allies (i.e. UK and France mainly at the time). Once the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor all the Americans wanted is to avenge themselves against the Japanese. War was not declared against the German. Hitler gave Roosevelt and his Americans a reason for them to declare a war on Germany by taking the initiative to declare war on the US a couple days later. That's not say that the US wouldn't at some point enter the war on the side of the allies but it could've been delayed by many months or even years.

As for the Russians, remember that the Nazis had made a pact with them when they invaded Poland. They divided Poland among them and the Germans went about their war on other fronts. Now Hitler could've waited for at least another year and he could've leashed his offensive the following Spring.

As some here have pointed out correctly another factor could've been if Hitler had allowed his generals to take over the operational side they could've still win the war (even after opening both fronts). It was him that stopped a few miles before overunning Moscow and turned south to Kiev. The generals wanted to finish the job and take Moscow. That could've been achieved by September.

I still wonder though, it took lots of armies and resources, numerous countries and countless battles to finally defeat the Germans. If you stop to think about it (from the purely militaristic/strategic point of view) this is amazing.

So long...

[Serb]

I forget to mention, today is 61 aniversary of beggining of Soviet's Moscow counter offensive- a battle wher untill this time unbeatable Wermach gained his first devastating deafeat and lost one million soldiers, a battle which ruined Hitlers hopes for blitz-kreige and his hopes for victory.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
All right, so most of my knowledge is from civ scenarios. But I still don't believe Russia had that many bombers.

The Russians had IIRC the biggest airplane fleet at the beginning of the war, which was almost destroyed at the beginning of the Blitzkrieg by the Luftwaffe! They actually numbered more planes than all other countries combined!


So long...

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Sandman
They could have occupied Poland only up to the Danzig corridor, claiming 'self-determination'. The West might have let Germany off the hook.

Doubt that. Germany had much more to claim over Alsace and Lorraine then over Gdañsk/Danzig.
Anyway, again I protest against coined by German nazis name "corridor", and claiming that Germans were majority there. It is simply not true.

[Serb]

Yeah, damn right. This sneak attack was damn sucesufull for Lufth-Wafe. Majority of Russian planes were destroeyed on airfields (Thank's to Stalin ans his order to move airfields as close as possible to frontier. I guess it's another sign that he prfered to fight an offensive war, not a defensive one). In fact, Soviets were forced to completele re-build its air force afte first days of war, because majority of planes were lost after first Lufth-Wafe (don't care how to type it properely) attack.
If Hitler gave him another year Red Army equipe its AF with newest examples of weaponry and could (and I guess this is what Stalin hopes for) have a devastating first strike against Hitler's forces. So, th eargument- Hitler should wait and didn't attack SU, I (imhp) consider as incorect, because in this case Red Army would be a much more therat for Hitler, then it was in 1941. He has no time and he thought he could destroy it, untill it''s too late.
This is my opinion and as you all well known I'm dead drunk right now, but there is no way in hell, I'll change my opinion tomorrow, Because it's true. Anybody who is disagree, don't be shy come and get some.

Azazel,
Da nuy na huy vse, ti kogda nibud pil vodku, mnogo, MNOGO vodki? Yebat moy sizy nos, no zdes -34C. A tut eshe kuch prazdnikov.
Koroch mne vse po-hui. Ya poshel pit dalshe.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Anodyne
If Hitler hadn't treated the people of occupied Ukraine, Belarus and Poland like total shit, he would've had 50+ million (not sure of the population at that time) more allies against the SU...

Not quite. Before the war, in exchange for Gdañsk and railway through Pomerania, Hitler offered us alliance and entire Ukraine after the war. Even then, no-one wanted this. No-one would go after Hitler after his invasion. Byeloruthenians had, and have, no national identity. Ukrainians had, and though yes, Hitler didn't give them all that they wanted, He didn't treat them all that bad in comparison to Poles (Byeloruthenians were treated better as well). Still, many many many Ukrainians and a million Russians fought on Hitler's side.

[Serb]

Where did you get this million?

[Viking Berserk]

LOL??? Germany couldn't win the war...

Maybe, but not lead by Hitler...
Let Hitler die in battle instead of suicide.
A new leader, better diplomatic strategies (not smart being everyone's enemy).

I'm glad they lost, and I wouldn't do nothing to change it

[Sava]

hahah nothing like drunk Russian posting!

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