Pick Your Poison. Conscription or Mandatory Military Service.

[David Floyd]

that's bs David and you know it...states can already force children to goto school for at least 13 years, so if states wanted to add a 13th grade that all you did was volunteer work, i'm sure it would be within their legal powers

First of all, that's incorrect. Once someone is 18, the state can no longer force you to go to school. Seeing as how we are not talking about drafting children, the rest of the argument is irrelevant.

if the federal government wanted to implement almost Mandatory Civilian Service here is how they could do it, until someone had completed a somewhere between 50-60 weeks of Civilian service, they would not be eligible for any federal student aid (including student loans), they couldn't get any federal job, they couldn't get any federal aid program like medicade, and the federal government would hold any federal tax refunds

All of the above is OK except withholding tax refunds. That's theft, even moreso than tax itself. If the government withholds more tax than they should, they are morally obligated (and probably legally, but I don't know on that) to return the money to you.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Tuberski



Never said they did, But having been in the military and having been a civilian. I know that, but then again I was in the military, thus, I am allowed to be an idiot, since I am anyway.

ACK!

Our favorite tongue smiley has been invaded by the :tonguianempire:

[Worthingtons]

Well, here are my thought's

First of all, there is a CLEAR, and large difference between the two. One(Military service) is a FAIR system which is applicable to (virtually) all, and the other(consription) is an completly unfair system, lottery being a good word for it, but with no prize.

I am strongly in favor of Military Service. Rah presented the best argument yet, about the equality of man. I'm not a socialist,communist,lefty or anything, but i do agree this is one area where equality is right.
There should be a flexable system in place though, whereby people can choose to do more civilian like activities if they have problems with shooting. There should NOT however be exemptions to people because of thier race or religion , i could just that stuff being in place in England, if you have a f..ing problem with it, dont live here!!!.

Military service would ensure the majority of folk are decent people, as those headcases from school/college, and the stuck up snobs from rich families would quickily be dealt with.
Many people who have done military service find it a valuable and rewarding experience, which they would swap for nothing.

Perhaps there would be the problem, of always having too many people at peacetime, but the overall productivity of the people over thier lives would be much higher because of it that the lost year or two while in service. Trust me on this one, in Industry in North England (Military service is optional over here) one of the questions when applying for some jobs is whether or not you have served, if you have , it is regarded as more important than any formal qualifications.

a final point , is that with Military service it is far more likely no-one would have to go to war if they didnt want to, as there would be lot's of volenteers from people who enjoyed thier service and have since left.

Military Service would only work if it was applicable to ALL, and was about 18 months long.

[Silpy]

Consription would never fly in the UK....unless it was a SERIOUS war which was BRITAINS INTEREST TO RESPOND, with out being prodded and scared by our 'ally' (read:master) to pay for our 'specail relationship' (read:Slave-slavemaster realtionship)

[SlowwHand]

Don't let it get your panties in a twist, Silpy.

[Silpy]

Sorry, saw 'old W on the TV threataning Iraq again.....

[aaglo]

Mandatory:

That kind of system does not discriminate nor favour any person. It is the democratic method of setting up a military force.

And it's fun too

[aaglo]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Mandatory Service is a lottery: You WILL serve, but you don't know whether there'll be a war on when you're doing it.

In Finland all those who have been in the army (that is almost everybody - conscientious objectors not included) belong to the reservist army. And all of them WILL BE CALLED ON DUTY when it is necessary. So the military service does not end here in 6, 9 or 12 months.
It ends when you are 45 years old (IIRC)

[Silpy]

Finland?

I know of another nation which operates this system - Isreal. But who does Finland have a mortal enemies. Russia? (Remenber, you signed the castration pact with Russia) Anybody else?

[Rasbelin]

Aaglo,

one day you can forget about a mandatory military service in Finland. I hope the day will come soon and we finally move over to a paid conscription army in Finland.

[aaglo]

Silpy:

AFAIK Swizerland has a similar system also. But when was the last time they were in war?

Yep, Sovjet Union was our mortal enemy. There is no real threat in the other direction (Norway? Sweden? ) In the post-war times SU was a real threat. And Finland was a small country during that time - and still is. Hence our system is the way it is.

[Silpy]

Ahem.

Give up this consription Finland, now.You dont need it anymore. Your in the EU now, are you not? We Brits, Germans and French will protect you now... (altough I will have to see it to beleve it, all on the same side....)

Switerland? They obvously beleave that the EU will fall apart, and will start wanting to invade each other again. (Hope it will never happen)

Because Conscription is mainly for nations who are either

1) In self-defence against a large neibour (India V Pakistan)

2) Military Goverments (Burma)

3) Nations who like war (Iraq)

4) Nations who want to feel big (China)

Sending consripts for peace-keeping is not too good, as professional troops can do it better!

[aaglo]

Silpy -
Actually, Finland and Great Brittain are in war. The brits declared a war on finns in the end of WW2, but the Paris peace treaty didn't mention anything about that...

Ok, you will protect us. But you need us to protect you (from the Russians )

[Silpy]

Yeah. Sorry, that was Stalin's fault.

Finland was proberly the only nation which had a good reason to ally to Nazi Germany, due to the 1939 siezure of Kalreia (bad spelling strikes again) by the Soviet Union. When Germany invaded Russia in '41, Finland saw it as a chance of getting it back, but Finland never moved troops past it's old border, which problery saved St. Petersburg. The UK was not at war with Finland until 1944, because Stalin forced us to. Finland made peace (quite generous ) in late 1944, but it seems that Finland forgot to do the same with the UK. Finland never supported Germeny's aims in europe (re 'Final Soution')
She just wanted Kalreia back.

[SlowwHand]

Don't know how many times, or how many ways I can explain, but conscription/draft is not the same as mandatory service for all.

You guys are demonstrating why draftees are last resort. Comprehension problems.

I can see it now. The order is given, and you attack your own side by mistake, because the order wasn't specific enough.