Asia 'outraged' At Howard's Terror Call

[Saint Marcus]

I like utopian visions as much as the next person but some of us prefer to deal with the real world.

not another one

again. slavery. 18th/19th century. If none had utopian visions, it would never have been abolished.

[Saint Marcus]

I don't think that a nation has an absolute right to sovereignty. If a country began ethnic cleansing, do you still think you can watch from the sidelines and shrug and say "It's their sovereign country, none of my concern?"

another false argument. Freedom is a human right, but if someone kills someone else, that freedom is taken away. Same with nations.

Slavery has certainly not always worked.

nor has realpolitik

Slavery is a different beast. It's just not RIGHT.

says who? for centuries, millenia, it was very RIGHT. What makes your claim more valid than the claim of someone who lived in the American South in 1800, of the Roman who lived in 200 AD, etc.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
again. slavery.

I fail to see the comparison. Perhaps you can tell me how an act of a government dealing with its own people has anything to do with the reality that States exist in an anarchic system?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
another false argument.

No -- "another false argument" is a false argument.
Do you have any clue how logic works, Marcus? When people are giving an opinion, how can it be a "false argument"? And for that matter, what *IS* a "false argument"?

Freedom is a human right, but if someone kills someone else, that freedom is taken away. Same with nations.

Freedom is therefore a privledge, if it can be taken away if you screw something up...

says who? for centuries, millenia, it was very RIGHT. What makes your claim more valid than the claim of someone who lived in the American South in 1800, of the Roman who lived in 200 AD, etc.

Very good attempt to try to once again avoid the issue.

My ideals are different than the people back then. My ideals are that people should do whatever they want, provided it doesn't hurt other people. If it does hurt other people, it should be stopped.

For that reason, if a country supports terrorism, it loses its right to sovereignty.
When a person commits murder, it loses its right to sovereignty.

[Lord Merciless]

Slavery doesn't work with capitalism.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


I agree. Sadly, many Americans (and Australians apparantly) see it otherwise. (though when it comes to oposing the ICC or thing like that, the first argument both countries use is "sovereignity". Hypocrits.).

What is hypocritical? We don't deny sovereignty exists, per se. The question is how does one obtain/enforce it.

[Bkeela]

Damn I wish my prime minister would keep his mouth shut. Keeping a low profile is one of the best strategies against terrorism.

Bkeela.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


another realpolitiking utilist

until the 18/9th century, slavery has been a common practice and it worked. if all people thought the same way as you, it would never have been abolished.

Slavery still exists. Where it has been abolished, it was because economic changes and/or competing economic systems made it conceivable (or advantageous for some) to abolish it, not because of some random external idealism because it wasn't nice.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Bkeela
Damn I wish my prime minister would keep his mouth shut. Keeping a low profile is one of the best strategies against terrorism.

Bkeela.

The best way to keep a low profile with these people is to convert to Islam and become so powerless as to pose absolutely no threat to their goals of global fundamentalist Islamism.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Several months have passed since Bali yet the Indonesian government hasn't taken any meaningful action against Islamic terrorists.

Indonesia acted quickly after Bali in cooperation with our people. Just about all the people involved in the attack have been captured.

The question now is do we let Indonesia remain a base for Islamic terrorists to attack us from or do we force them to take action?

Regional governments including Indonesia are cracking down hard on these groups. Tourism is a very important industry for them. The damage of the Bali attack runs into billions of dollars for Indonesia. They are desperate to get back to normal tourist flows.

[Drake Tungsten]

Couldn't they have gotten better Southeast Asian leaders to comment on this? I'd love to hear what Lee Kuan Yew has to say about this; he's always good for an interesting quote. His "Australia is the new white trash of Asia" comment is a classic.

[Alexander's Horse]

He didn't say that - he said we risked becoming that if we didn't have an open immigration policy

He's always been a friend of Australia in the region.

[Drake Tungsten]

He didn't say that - he said we risked becoming that if we didn't have an open immigration policy

True. I believe the comment was made in regard to economic policy, not immigration, but he did say that Australia risked becoming "the new white trash of Asia", not that they already were.

Still a great quote, though.

[Saint Marcus]

For that reason, if a country supports terrorism, it loses its right to sovereignty.
When a person commits murder, it loses its right to sovereignty.

I fully agree. But many nations that are discussed here, don't actively support terrorism.

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
He didn't say that - he said we risked becoming that if we didn't have an open immigration policy

what so you can become the new yellow trash instead?