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  • Asia 'outraged' At Howard's Terror Call




    SYDNEY, Australia -- Asian countries have reacted with outrage to calls from Australia's prime minister for pre-emptive action against terrorists operating in Southeast Asia.

    Howard said on Australian television Sunday that the U.N. Charter should be changed so it could be used against any threat, conventional or terrorist.

    Indonesia is warning against Prime Minister John Howard following through on his call, saying that Australia has no right to take military action in other countries.

    "Fortunately, states cannot willy-nilly flout international law and norms. We have to work within the system," Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Marti Natalegawa told The Associated Press.

    Indonesian was not alone in criticizing Howard's remarks.

    "Nobody does anything like this," Thailand's government spokesman Ratthakit Manathat said. "Each country has its own sovereignty, that must be protected."

    Operations on Thai soil, he said, would require "highly cautious consideration."

    Philippine National Security Adviser Roilo Golez said governments must work together rather than one country acting unilaterally.

    "It's not wise and it doesn't follow ... the doctrine of peacekeeping and sovereignty," he said. "Sovereignty is not decided by fight, it's decided by right."

    Australia's military is one of the most powerful in the region.

    Howard's comments follow October's bombing in the Indonesian resort of Bali in which almost half of the 200 victims were Australian.

    The radical Indonesian group Jemaah Islamiyah has been blamed for the attack.

    Natalegawa said Jakarta understood Australia's "horrific experience" but said that "in the fight against terror, no country can act above the law and norms. The change has to be decided by the 190-odd members of the U.N. and this is not easy," The Associated Press reports.

    "Howard should learn to control himself," Indonesian legislator Alvin Lee told The AP. "Indonesia and Australia are both victims. I strongly support increased cooperation among neighboring countries to fight terrorism but not attacks."

    A spokesman for a left-wing group in the Philippines, Bayan, said his members would now protest against Australia, instead of the United States, and described Howard as a "bully."

    "(President Gloria Macapagal-)Arroyo would be a laughing stock if she would allow this threatening statement to pass," he said.

    Howard's office said his remarks were hypothetical.

    A spokesman for a left-wing group in the Philippines, Bayan, said his members would now protest against Australia, instead of the United States, and described Howard as a "bully."
    thanks guys


    It was almost funny how Indonesia talked about working within the system for peace.
    Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

  • #2
    You surely know that it is against International Law to force a regime change in another country, right?
    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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    • #3
      Leftist this, leftist that... howard has a point... if nothing is done as now then there will be terror attacks. Indonesia's government is perhaps the most incompetent I have ever heard of. The Philippines at least is waging a war against fundamentalist islamists.

      Now if some of these governments would get their acts together and actually start doing something about terror, Australia might of not made any comments like this.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Urban Ranger
        You surely know that it is against International Law to force a regime change in another country, right?

        I don't recall regime change mentioned in the article. Only Howard calling for the UN charter being changed. Why don't you ask an Aussie?
        Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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        • #5
          Sovereignty is not decided by fight, it's decided by right.
          I agree. Sadly, many Americans (and Australians apparantly) see it otherwise. (though when it comes to oposing the ICC or thing like that, the first argument both countries use is "sovereignity". Hypocrits.).
          Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Saint Marcus


            I agree. Sadly, many Americans (and Australians apparantly) see it otherwise. (though when it comes to oposing the ICC or thing like that, the first argument both countries use is "sovereignity". Hypocrits.).
            Hypocrits, you mean like Euros negotiatiating the same kind of deals to keep themselves from IIC juristdiction that they US wanted? Lets keep this about the topic of the thread Marcus. Do you think you can do that?

            All nations are hypocrits.
            Last edited by Sprayber; December 1, 2002, 10:43.
            Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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            • #7
              This is imperialism, plain and simple.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sandman
                This is imperialism, plain and simple.
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sandman
                  This is imperialism, plain and simple.
                  So Sandman what would you have the Australians do? Sit by and watch the Indonesians play lip service to fighting terror while Australian citizens continue to die? Several months have passed since Bali yet the Indonesian government hasn't taken any meaningful action against Islamic terrorists.

                  The question now is do we let Indonesia remain a base for Islamic terrorists to attack us from or do we force them to take action? Howard's speech is a perfect example of the old carrot & stick method of diplomacy. He's saying that if the Indonesians don't start fulfilling their responsabilities then they might get the stick; and if this motivates the Indonesians into doing something positive then I say good for Howard.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #10
                    Indonesia's government is perhaps the most incompetent I have ever heard of.

                    Haven't you heard of Bush's regime?
                    Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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                    • #11
                      We can not sit by and allow governments to harbor terrorists and not make serious efforts to combat them. Talk about internaitonal law all you want, it always takes a backseat to national security.
                      "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                      "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by St Leo
                        Indonesia's government is perhaps the most incompetent I have ever heard of.

                        Haven't you heard of Bush's regime?
                        I am sorry but Bush has the most competent government in the world.

                        Little trolls like that from little liberals.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #13
                          I am sorry but Bush has the most competent government in the world.


                          made my day fez, made my day
                          Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by St Leo
                            Indonesia's government is perhaps the most incompetent I have ever heard of.

                            Haven't you heard of Bush's regime?
                            You may not like his policies but you must admite he is politically astuite enough to bring home the bacon for his core constituency.
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                            • #15
                              Weakling nations that are significantly unable to control there own territory and maintain a minimum level of order are understandbly unhaapy are calls for stronger nation to get the job done or we will do it for , but insults of that nature appear to be inextricably tied to the condition of internal weakness. If you fail to deliver the stability required of a governement, your claim to sovereinty gets will get less respect.
                              Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
                              Japher: "crap, did I just post in this thread?"
                              "Bloody hell, Lefty.....number one in my list of persons I have no intention of annoying, ever." Bugs ****ing Bunny
                              From a 6th grader who readily adpated to internet culture: "Pay attention now, because your opinions suck"

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