American troops in Europe

[Drake Tungsten]

In other words the cold war is over but Europe hasn't changed is stratergy.

And there's the correct answer. Congrats, Stinger!

[el freako]

I think gepap was referring to the total numbers in the armed forces - not the actual number in the army.


Why should we change our strategy (the defence of the europe from outside attack) - we don't need to project our power.

Any possible distant threat to the EU would also be a threat to the US - and would be dealt with by them as a matter of their own self-interest.

I see no reason why we in europe should not free-load on america in this way whilst we concentrate on unifing our continent - after all they free-loaded on the British to protect them from other europeans during the period when they were expanding across their continent.

[TheStinger]

Last time I checked, the US threw out the British before unifying the continent.

The problem with Europes armed forces is that they are badly equipped and not designed to do anything useful.

When NATO wanted to go into Kosovo to directly take on the Serbs the UK would have had to use almost all its army to do it. The French and Germans have bigger but even more useless armies. Loads of men in nice uniforms is not the same as having a capable armed forces.

[flash9286]

acutally the russians proteted us while we were expanding across our contientent, Britian was still mad at us

[The Pioneer]

First of all the States earned their right to be stationed in Germany and Europe. Here in Germany we still have english, belgian and other allied forces still stationed here. Although, the americans are the only one with the intend to stay. Well Germany really has a problem with their military (it seems now days that Germany is full of problems) They are spending well below NATO's requirements and although they have a standing army it's not a modern one like the british or the americans but above all they have to rent logistical support from the Ukraine, the US and others if they want to move troops and material. DO not forget though that the reason behind that is WWII.

As for someones comment that the Americans contribute to the local economy I would have to disagree. I've been in a couple of these bases and I've associated with some that were/are stationed there. Those bases are self sufficient and they rarely go out for shopping, etc. Well the under age kids go outside because they can buy beer there.

The biggest reason why the States are staying is not because we cannot protect ourselves but because of the meaning of the greek word Hegemoy !

So long...

[TheStinger]

The Germans could easily protect themselves if they put their hand in their pockets and paid for it.

[HershOstropoler]

"The Germans could easily protect themselves if they put their hand in their pockets and paid for it."

Germany spends about the same amount on defense as Britain. The current setup however is still an army 300.000+ strong, with about 100.000 draftees in it, which means it is still designed to fight large scale invasions in central europe instead of projecting troops beyond that. The idea that germany could not defend itself against... ehm, don't know, the swiss maybe ? is absurd.

They are however planning to increase reaction forces from 60k to 150k, and the small rest will be not much different from the UK's territorial defense. (the still official plan is less far reaching but also dead paper). Due to budget constraints the transformation is relatively slow, however.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"The Germans could easily protect themselves if they put their hand in their pockets and paid for it."

Germany spends about the same amount on defense as Britain. The current setup however is still an army 300.000+ strong, with about 100.000 draftees in it, which means it is still designed to fight large scale invasions in central europe instead of projecting troops beyond that. The idea that germany could not defend itself against... ehm, don't know, the swiss maybe ? is absurd.

They are however planning to increase reaction forces from 60k to 150k, and the small rest will be not much different from the UK's territorial defense. (the still official plan is less far reaching but also dead paper). Due to budget constraints the transformation is relatively slow, however.

At the moment the Polish would be in a better position to stop the Russians(unlikley but you never know) than the Germans.

The point is that Europe still heavily relies on the US to support it in any military action and that is stupid

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Re: American troops in Europe

Originally posted by flash9286
Why does America keep troops in Europe it cost billions. Let the Europeans pay for their own defense and stop leaching off America.

Europe is a colony that has to be kept under control... that is worth billions

[HershOstropoler]

"At the moment the Polish would be in a better position to stop the Russians(unlikley but you never know) than the Germans."

bull****

"The point is that Europe still heavily relies on the US to support it in any military action and that is stupid"

Oh it has its advantages for both sides too - which is why change is so slow.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"At the moment the Polish would be in a better position to stop the Russians(unlikley but you never know) than the Germans."

bull****

"The point is that Europe still heavily relies on the US to support it in any military action and that is stupid"

Oh it has its advantages for both sides too - which is why change is so slow.

They would all go on strike.

The advantage for europe is that they have an excuse not to do anything militarily on the basis that they can't rather than have to own up and say they don't want to or even the other way round

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"The Germans could easily protect themselves if they put their hand in their pockets and paid for it."

Germany spends about the same amount on defense as Britain.

I don't think so. Germany is spending 1,5% of the GDP which is below the 2% requirement. But I am not sure as far as absolute sums go.

So long...

[HershOstropoler]

Germany's 1.5 % is about 30 billion $, Britain's ~2.5 % is about 35 billion $.

[The Pioneer]

Ohh, we are talking about a mere 5 billion difference !

So long...

[TheStinger]

Uk is not perfect by any means however, the UK can projec tfar more force than Germany, we have carriers for a start. are forces are not geared up for only 1 type of warfare.

I wasn't actualy trying to say the UK was better tha the Germans more that France and Germany need to do more to be able to conduct military operations without the US help