DanS: Hu is now the man

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Winston
The Tibetans didn't ask to become Chinese citizens they were forced to, which is kind of the whole point.

That's not necessarily true. The Tibetan people welcomed the Red Army in the 1950s. The Chinese liberated the Tibetan people from the feudal slave masters, aka the Dahli Lama and his religion. The main resistence to the Chinese occupation of Tibet came from former masters who wish to be masters once again and the CIA.

[Winston]

Oh yes, I forgot. The Tibetan people welcomed the Red Army.

I forgot to wash my brain properly before posting.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Winston
Except for the 400 years' difference in time and enlightenment.

So, you are basically saying that you Europeans can get away with genocides after the passage of time.

Well, that shows what kind of person you really are and what you really think.

Tibet or else, they are just something you could use to make other countries look worse compared to yours and thus make yourself feel superior.

Still the same European obsession with cultural and moral superiority.

[chequita guevara]

No, you just forgot to use it.

[Boris Godunov]

Didn't the Red Army BOMB Tibet?

[chequita guevara]

Nope, they just moved in. Tibet didn't have much of an army, and the Dahli Lama saw that it was rather pointless to resist. After he fled, there was some resistence organized and trained by the CIA (they received their training in the Colorado Rockies, btw). It sort of petered out in the early 60s.

Despite the one famine (and it was a doozy) and the chaos of the Cultural Revolution, you really need to understand that life for the average person in China (including minorities) has been consistently getting better. That includes Tibet, where the people had previously had to support a God-King and all his priestly nobility on their backs.

[Winston]

No LM, what I'm saying is you can't compare genocides and other atrocities committed 400 years ago, when they were more or less the order of the day, with what is happening to oppressed ethnic minorities in this day and age - where the consensus is (or should be) that governments have to observe human rights as the first condition of administration.

[Boris Godunov]

I'm guessing you weren't a big fan of Kundun...

[Boris Godunov]

And yeah, 1.2 million dead is a real, um, "doozy"

[Lord Merciless]

Well, Tibet had suffered quite a bit from the late 50s until the mid 70s, with famine, cultural revolution, and all. But Tibet was hardly alone in this aspect, since the whole China was equally messed up during the same period. Mao's crazy social engineering experiment basically screwed over everyone.

[Winston]

che, I'm so glad you have no say over other people's matters and rights. Let's keep it that way shall we.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Winston
No LM, what I'm saying is you can't compare genocides and other atrocities committed 400 years ago, when they were more or less the order of the day, with what is happening to oppressed ethnic minorities in this day and age -

First off, European colonial powers were committing genocide right up until they got their collective asses kicked out of the 3rd World. Second, China isn't committing genocide in Tibet.

[Boris Godunov]

True, mass murder != genocide.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And yeah, 1.2 million dead is a real, um, "doozy"

1.2 million? Try somewhere around 20 million, in the Great Leap Forward. That's the only famine that China's had since the revolution. Prior to the revolution, China experienced a famine, on average, every year and a half. So even the disaster of the Great Leap Forward is mitagated by the 35 other famines they didn't have.

[Winston]

che,

I was responding to a point by LM about the conduct of the original colonizers of North America.

And wrt. "China not commiting genocide in Tibet", well that's your heavily tainted interpretation. Tibetan exiles have a slightly different perception, I assure you.

But then, again they aren't fundamentalist in their outlook on the world like you, they're just desperately trying to report on the continuing atrocitites in their home country.