DanS: Hu is now the man

[DanS]

"Probably ousting him in some way, like the other Hu before him."

Could somebody describe what actions were taken to do this on Hu #1? Who was Hu #1 and what got him in trouble?

Educate DanS.

[ranskaldan]

Hu Yaobang?

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0824655.html

You know, of all the Maps I have looked at, I could never find many with an 'independent' Tibet... Too bad the Tibet issue is only fodder for a tiny group of people...

That could be because they aren't, in the first place.

Maps are supposed to reflect objective reality, after all, which means that Taiwan might be a different colour but Tibet isn't.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by mindseye

I kinda wish I lived in China- all that potential for a nation must be exciting times for them.

It is truly thrillng to live here! It's hard to describe how exciting it is to see a new nation leaping into existance all around you. I was back in the US for ten days, when I returned I couldn't believe the changes in my neighborhood after such a short period!

I go back to Beijing every summer - and every summer so far has been new and surprising. But I hope they build up the Beijing downtown, it still looks too sparse...

And I just visited Shanghai this summer. Absolutely amazing!

[DanS]

Well, the Olympics should help Beijing as a city.

Overall, I'm optimistic about China's future, although I think it will be more tumultuous than hoped. The Party is planning on about 7.5% real growth per annum for the next 20 years (faster than the last 20 years, even though population growth is slowing drastically). I can't say it's unrealistic, but it's extremely tough to accomplish, and relies a good deal on luck.

For instance, about 1/10th of China's economy (currency basis) is tied to exports to the US. This should grow, but I don't think it will grow at 7.5% a year every year during this time.

[GePap]

Wouldn't the chinese want to accomplish those growth aims by increasing exports to other areas, like japan and the EU, plus a growth in their own internal markets and not just by increasing their trade with the US?

[Boris Godunov]

Who da man?
Hu da man!

[Winston]

I'm anxiously awaiting his next visit to a Western country and his subsequent arrest and trial - like the case was with Augusto Pinochet - for being directly responsible for sending 100,000 soldiers against Tibetan independence protesters in 1989, killing at least 40 innocent protesters.

Or maybe he'll do a Honecker on us... Afterall, the international PC comradery works in mysterious ways.

Meanwhile, the regular leftist loonies certainly seem to think that he's totally delightful and adorable. So what else is new.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Winston
Maybe it's because their culture is downtrotten and they're in many cases denied rights of work, education, child birth, free practice of religion, and political rights.

Keep in mind that Tibetans are one of the few people in China who are allowed to have as many children as they want per family. Other ethnic minorities are limited to five, two, or (in the case of the Han majority) one.

However, I agree with you about the lack of religious rights and political rights. I would also like to point out that what you just said about Tibetans in those respects applies to everybody else as well.

I'm not sure if I just made a positive point, or an incredibly negative one. Either way, it was something extreme.

[Winston]

There are numerous reports of organized, forced sterilizations of women in Tibet.

Also the ongoing massive, centrally controlled, migration of ethnic Chinese into Tibet have been reported several times, along with some reports that these immigrants are not under any restrictions wrt. number of children.

Of course the same concerns apply to mistreated native populations elsewhere, but I'm talking about what China does to Tibet.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by DanS
"Probably ousting him in some way, like the other Hu before him."

Could somebody describe what actions were taken to do this on Hu #1? Who was Hu #1 and what got him in trouble?

Educate DanS.

If I recall rightly (and I was only eight years old at the time, living in Beijing) the "first" Hu was a liberal who advocated democracy in Chinese politics. This split the Communist party leaders, with a hard core opposing but a largely younger generation trying to iron out how a system could work.

In the end, Deng Xiaoping dismissed the idea, and Hu's following diminished as political fallout took place, although he did remain within the CCP itself.

Fast forward to 1989, the year of Tiananmen. This is the same year that Hu died of liver failure (?) and university students express their sorrow with memorials, which the government discourages. The CCP believes the issue has been decided.

During Gorbachev's visit, the students demonstrate in Tiananmen and Li Peng opens talks with their spokespersons. Posthumously, Hu becomes something of a figurehead during Tiananmen.

After the violent crackdown, the hardliners took power. Deng, however, continued to institute economic changes while carefully avoiding any potential political destabilizers.

The result is that China is currently running a weird hybrid of Free Market *** Planned economics, while still remaining much of a Police State.

(This translates roughly to +2 Support +2 Econ +2 Growth +2 Industry -4 Efficiency -2 Police -2 Planet and an outlay of 195 energy credits over around four years or so.)

Note - the present Hu has no blood relation to the previous Hu. Nor is he related to my housemate Hu Man Bing, whom I fervently hope never gets admitted into any government anywhere.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Winston
There are numerous reports of organized, forced sterilizations of women in Tibet.

There is, frankly, no official advocation for sterilizations of any kind. This is often done by local officials who are eager to up their records.

Also the ongoing massive, centrally controlled, migration of ethnic Chinese into Tibet have been reported several times, along with some reports that these immigrants are not under any restrictions wrt. number of children.

Migration, yes.
On the other hand, it is people of Chinese descent who are subject to the one-child policy, while minorities (i.e. Tibetans) are not.

Of course the same concerns apply to mistreated native populations elsewhere, but I'm talking about what China does to Tibet.

Tibetans, btw, are full Chinese citizens, with no "colonial" "sub-special" status. You might as well ask what China's leaders are doing to China.

[Winston]

The Tibetans didn't ask to become Chinese citizens they were forced to, which is kind of the whole point.

As for the child policy issue, I have infinitely more confidence in the reports of exiled Tibetans and human rights organizations, than in the official statements by the communist clerks in Beijing.

[ranskaldan]

The Chinese didn't exactly ask to become citizens of China either.

[Lord Merciless]

Just like the European immigrants once colonized the North American continent, Tibet will be colonized by the Chinese. The main difference here is that Chinese will not kill off any significant portion of the natives, unlike the Europeans.

If some Europeans can somehow think they can behave morally superior in these matters, they are wrong.

[Winston]

Except for the 400 years' difference in time and enlightenment.