$300 speeding ticket

[David Floyd]

Basically, you want anarchy?

No.

Human rights over the common good?

The "common good" is really nothing more than a bunch of different individual rights. The only "common good" you're going to find is guaranteeing people the right to do as they please, as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by David Floyd

In terms of traffic laws such as speed limits, it comes down to whether speed limits violate your rights.

Forget about rights. What about your responsibility to other road users to drive safely and obey the road rules?

Ask any traffic cop - most people are nothing like as able drivers as they think they are and have no idea what to do in an emergency.

The road rules are there to protect people and make sure everyone gets to their destination safely.

Here, driving a car is now seen more as a privilege with responsibilities than a right.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
and there are good arguments that just because roads are state property doesn't mean they can restrict your speed, any more than they can restrict what you're wearing, eating, or carrying.

Out of curiosity, do you think it's a violation of individual rights for a state government building to x-ray and search the bags and possessions of individuals entering them?

Is it a violation of rights to require a driver's license in order to operate a motor vehicle?

[David Floyd]

Forget about rights. What about your responsibility to other road users to drive safely and obey the road rules?

What about it? If I hurt someone maliciously, I should be prosecuted. If I hurt someone negligently, I should at least have my license suspended.

Here, driving a car is now seen more as a privilege with responsibilities than a right.

Well, when a nation and a government only recognizes individual rights when it suits their purposes, it's very easy for them to view some things as "privileges".

Boris,

Out of curiosity, do you think it's a violation of individual rights for a state government building to x-ray and search the bags and possessions of individuals entering them?

Oh, I'd say probably so.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


No, but apparently you are a judgmental hypocrite.

Probably

Hey Boris, welcome to the human race

I hope one day you're man enough to admit you did wrong and your words and actions aren't always consistent.

Past imperfect? *shrug*

*blows Boris a big wet kiss*

[David Floyd]

Is it a violation of rights to require a driver's license in order to operate a motor vehicle?

Yes, if a license is required to operate a vehicle on private property (including private roads). But I'm with tandeetaylor in that roads should be privately owned, and as such any restrictions should be up to the owner, so that's about as far as we're gonna get in this discussion.

I rather liked her statement about asking me what kind of national dress code I'd support

[Asher]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yep Asher, there's always an out

But I can think of many situations on the highway where being over speed is the difference between life and death.

Don't be so silly, Horse.

If you truly followed your logic to the letter we'd be using tricycles on the highways.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Asher

If you truly followed your logic to the letter we'd be using tricycles on the highways.

Er how does driving within the speed limit lead to tricycles? Sorry Asher, the ad absurdem argument never works

But I would like to see you one day on the highway on a tricycle. Oh yes, that would be good

[David Floyd]

If you truly followed your logic to the letter we'd be using tricycles on the highways.

Yeah, but not too fast, because what if someone hit someone else and caused them to skin their elbow on the pavement?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Well, when a nation and a government only recognizes individual rights when it suits their purposes, it's very easy for them to view some things as "privileges".

But there is a also a limit to individual rights, and there are indeed community rights. This is pretty fundamental to the law. The individual's rights, while vitally important to American law, are not the only things to be considered. What is deemed the common good is also important.

Oh, I'd say probably so.

So, a state courthouse shouldn't be able to search people entering? Or any government building?

What about airports?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Well, when a nation and a government only recognizes individual rights when it suits their purposes, it's very easy for them to view some things as "privileges".

Who is "them"? You mean the community? Oh yeah, we tend to think the rights of the majority take precedence over the rights of individuals and that indivuals have both rights within the community and responsibilities to it. One outcome of all that is speed limits and road rules.

We call it democracy. Its an interesting concept - you should look it up some time

[Asher]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Er how does driving within the speed limit lead to tricycles? Sorry Asher, the ad absurdem argument never works

But I would like to see you one day on the highway on a tricycle. Oh yes, that would be good

You're talking about how speed can kill. Basically you're either intentionally confusing the two or you really don't know the difference between a posted speedlimit and what's actually safe for travel.

The speed limits are posted there because most people can't figure out how fast they should truly be going, so they set it to something low and safer. In my area especially, city streets have ridiculously low speed limits because they're the same in winter and summer. Obviously you should go A LOT slower in winter, but they don't change the signs.

It's safer to go faster on those big 8-10 lane roads in summer at a higher speed than the speed limit, in fact the limits here on main roads seem to be about 70km/h on an 8-10 lane road that has no traffic lights and drives in a straight line. Is it like that in Australia?

There's room for discretion for speed. You keep equating speeding to driving dangerously, when sometimes it's driving what's acceptable. 90km/h on an 8/10-lane straight-road with no traffic lights seems acceptable to me, especially when everyone else does it. Yes, it is speeding. And if I got pulled over I wouldn't cry about it, but I also wouldn't go into a teary story about how a 5 year old kid died in a residential area because of speeders. That's a different ballgame.

[David Floyd]

But there is a also a limit to individual rights,

Yes, and that limit is that they can't infringe upon the rights of another.

and there are indeed community rights.

I disagree.

This is pretty fundamental to the law. The individual's rights, while vitally important to American law, are not the only things to be considered. What is deemed the common good is also important.

Then the law is flawed.

So, a state courthouse shouldn't be able to search people entering? Or any government building?

What about airports?

Why should a government official ever be able to search you, unless you break some law warranting arrest, or if there is a valid warrant involved?

[David Floyd]

We call it democracy. Its an interesting concept - you should look it up some time

"Democracy is two foxes and a chicken voting on dinner."

I rather like that quote

[Alexander's Horse]

People just love to speed don't they? They'd say anything to justify it.