$300 speeding ticket

[Ming]

DF... I'm not going to argue with you about whether you should or should not have specific rights... especially since in many of these things, I happen to agree with you. All I'm arguring is what the law is... right or wrong... and that if you violate the law, you have to face up to the responsibilities of your actions.

Especially in the case of speeding... The speed limits are POSTED... if you don't want to follow them, then learn how to deal with the tickets, and don't whine because you got pulled over

[David Floyd]

I'm not an expert on Chinese laws... so whether either sides actions were legal or not... I have no clue.

My personal opinion is that the actions of the Chineses government were totally wrong and immoral... but that's just my opinion... and not the law.

So if the Chinese students were violating the law, and the Chinese troops were acting in accordance with the law, then the Chinese students deserved what they got?

[Boris Godunov]

I don't see how you can make a disconnect between a law and punishment for breaking it. If a law is unjust, then the punishment meted out for it is inherently unjust.

In any case, the first step to overturning a law is to build popular support for doing so. That means talking to people and making a case for it being unjust.

To dismiss such complaints as "whining" seems to me to imply derision for those who think the law is unfair. Would you have accused Parks of whining when she spoke out on the unfairness of segragation laws?

[Sprayber]

So we are equating speeders with the protestors in China now

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If you are going to engage in civil disobedience, don't whine about the consequences. You knew about them going in.

Pointing out the unjustness of the consequences is integral to pointing out the unjustness of the laws. It is not whining.

[David Floyd]

So we are equating speeders with the protestors in China now

No, we are not. YOU, on the other hand, are making a ridiculous statement designed to try to make someone else look like an idiot. Don't do that.

[DinoDoc]

We are talking about a speeding ticket, Boris. Hardly the stuff of legend.

But since you asked, I will submit that there are serious differences between a legitimate and serious way to complain and the first post in this thread which I would definately classify as whining.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
We are talking about a speeding ticket, Boris. Hardly the stuff of legend.

But since you asked, I will submit that there are serious differences between a legitimate complaint and the first post in this thread which I would definately classify as whining.

We've moved well beyond the speeding ticket issue and moved into a broader discussion of philosophy and ethics concerning the law. That much has been easily apparent for the past 2 pages.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Sprayber
So we are equating speeders with the protestors in China now

I was starting to wonder the same too...

The laws in other countries are all different. Maybe, in the minds of the Chinese Government, they acted in a proper fashion and indeed feel the students got what they deserved. And maybe it was all legal. And if it was, maybe people can fight that law and change it. I really don't know... I'm not an expert.

I happen to disagree and think it was just totally wrong.
I don't agree with what the government did... but that doesn't change the law, or what happened.

And people who are trying to use Rosa Parks and the Chinese Government as an excuse for why they should be allowed to speed without being pulled over are just WHINING!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by David Floyd


No, we are not. YOU, on the other hand, are making a ridiculous statement designed to try to make someone else look like an idiot. Don't do that.

Then why are you talking about in a thread about speeding tickets? Or do you just like to talk about anything you like. Don't do that.

[David Floyd]

But I'm asking what YOU think. Regardless of the law, was it OK for the Chinese government to send tanks and soldiers after unarmed, nonviolent students?

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by David Floyd
But I'm asking what YOU think. Regardless of the law, was it OK for the Chinese government to send tanks and soldiers after unarmed, nonviolent students?

I think Ming answered that question

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ming
And people who are trying to use Rosa Parks and the Chinese Government as an excuse for why they should be allowed to speed without being pulled over are just WHINING!

Nobody has done that.

Both came up in discussion of different subjects. Trying to link them back to the speeding ticket issue is being disingenuous at best.

[Ming]

Actually, "1" opened the door to that with his insane chewing gum example... up until then, this truely was a thread about speeding.

[1]

Oh don't pin this on me Ming! Your radical views of being a police fanboy, pushed this thread off from the ticket issue. =P