Should East Europe countries be thankful to Soviet Union?

[David Floyd]

Didn't even catch that part.

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Yes, people dying would have been bad, but the destruction of the Soviet state would have been good.

So, you prefer extermination of another 27 millions of Soviet people in favor to let USA to grab all Europe. Great mr. Floyd, just great.

Totally unnecessary. The US would have had total air supremacy over the continent of Europe, and strategic bombers could have flattened every single German industrial and population center, especially once the B-29s came in. Entire troop concentrations could have been carpet bombed. And that's BEFORE the atomic bomb.

mr. Floyd you sounds like a baby boy now. Could you repeat the same in topic about lend-lease to let AH to laugh on you?
This time you posted a real childish crap. Because:
1) It's absoultely clear that if Germany throw its major forces vs. USA, then American casualties were MUCH greater then 300 000. You think WW2 could have been won only by planes? Do you think Germans didn't have air-superiority during first years of war on Eastern front? Do you think Russians didn't have air superiority during last years of war? You have an opinion about WW2 like about any of your modern sandbox showdowns like desert storm for example, where you could destroy enemy tanks from safe distance using precision weapons. You had absolutely air superiority during Vietnam war and could freely carpet bomb this country (and done a lot of in this direction), so what? You have won the war? Just don't start bs. about political decisions please.
2) Hypotheticaly, only hypotheticaly if you are true. Do you understand WHAT are you offering to population of those European countries. I'll explain to you. You are offering- "Hey European guys, we are here to save your asses, but will have to nuke some of your cities or burn them to the ground with capert bombardments. We don't care how many millions of you will die, because its for your own sake and because we can't let our soldiers die. I guess you guys should understand this, because they aren't simple soldiers, they are AMERICAN soldiers."

I would have far preferred the US stay out, altogether, but once we were in the war, we should have done our damndest to make sure the Soviet Union did not gobble up more territory and more people and more resources.

That's the way how loyal ally should act!!! Are you sure your weren't on Hitler's side?

[David Floyd]

Could you repeat the same in topic about lend-lease to let AH to laugh on you?

You've been made to look stupid so many times you're arguing by proxy now?

1) It's absoultely clear that if Germany throw its major forces vs. USA, then American casualties were MUCH greater then 300 000. You think WW2 could have been won only by planes? Do you think Germans didn't have air-superiority during first years of war on Eastern front? Do you think Russians didn't have air superiority during last years of war? You have an opinion about WW2 like about any of your modern sandbox showdowns like desert storm for example, where you could destroy enemy tanks from safe distance using precision weapons. You had absolutely air superiority during Vietnam war and could freely carpet bomb this country (and done a lot of in this direction), so what? You have won the war? Just don't start bs. about political decisions please.

If the US took out Hitler, it could have reached a peace agreement. If it took out Hitler with an atomic bomb, it could have reached a favorable peace agreement. That sounds like winning to me.

2) Hypotheticaly, only hypotheticaly if you are true. Do you understand WHAT are you offering to population of those European countries. I'll explain to you. You are offering- "Hey European guys, we are here to save your asses, but will have to nuke some of your cities or burn them to the ground with capert bombardments. We don't care how many millions of you will die, because its for your own sake and because we can't let our soldiers die. I guess you guys should understand this, because they aren't simple soldiers, they are AMERICAN soldiers."

Well no ****, Sherlock. I don't advocate this in reality, I'm simply saying that the US didn't really need the Soviet Union to win the war.

And then let's look at what the Soviets advocate. "Hey, guys, we're gonna kick the Nazis out, but guess what? Now you get to be a satellite puppet government for the Soviet Union. Oh, and if you have a different idea, we'll roll in the tanks! Whuppee!"

That's the way how loyal ally should act!!!

Yes, we should act more like the Soviet Union, and invade a defenseless country (Poland), along with your loyal ally, Nazi Germany.

Are you sure your weren't on Hitler's side?

As usual, I'm on my side.

I would have preferred to live under Hitler than Stalin, though.

[Alexander's Horse]

Soviet occupation had a number of positive effects on Eastern Europe:

a. It ended German racial colonialism.

b. It stabilised Eastern Europe.

c. It pretty much ended the nationalities and borders question.

d. It ushered in a long period of peace and social and economic development, albeit a militarised peace under the Cold War threat.

The downsides were the same as those for Soviet rule in Russia - a lack of personal freedom, a lower standard of living and slower rate of economic growth than in the West and, most of all, foreign occupation and Stalinist repression.

But it was much much better than what went before under German domination. Most of the countries rebuilt their societies and waited patiently for the Russians to go home and Soviet rule to pass into history. The degree of acceptance of Russian dominance varied from country to country.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Is Israel an Asian country? Tell that to the Asians

What does your map say, Horsie?

[David Floyd]

Most of the countries rebuilt their societies and waited patiently for the Russians to go home and Soviet rule to pass into history.

And, of course, when they decided to throw off the yoke, the Soviets invaded, such as the case in Hungary. Sounds like a "positive effect" to me.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


What does your map say, Horsie?

It says Israel is in Asia. But that's about where the similarity ends.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by David Floyd
UR - I'm not gonna argue the corruption point, but are you seriously arguing that Israel is less authoritarian than Japan?

At least in Israel the ruling parties change around. In Japan that happened only once after WWII. The rest of the time LDP lorded over the country.

Originally posted by David Floyd
Yeah, I'll believe that when the Japanese occupy Korea again

Oh, then maybe you don't know that Japan is illegally occupying some Chinese territory.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by David Floyd


And, of course, when they decided to throw off the yoke, the Soviets invaded, such as the case in Hungary. Sounds like a "positive effect" to me.

Did I not say it varied from country to country?

A lot had to do with historical ties. Bulgaria for example has always been close to Russia.

Poland has always had to choose between Germany and Russia. The silly Poles choose neither and get carved up over and over again.

[David Floyd]

At least in Israel the ruling parties change around. In Japan that happened only once after WWII. The rest of the time LDP lorded over the country.

But the point is, the level of personal freedom is probably quite a bit higher in Japan for a Palestinian than it is in Israel.

Oh, then maybe you don't know that Japan is illegally occupying some Chinese territory.

If you mean Japan is occupying a few rocks that don't mean ****, give it a rest. But even if you don't, it isn't that significant, and certainly not on the scale of what we're talking about.

But while we're on the subject, weren't you aware of the Chinese occupation of Tibet?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sonic
Lithuanians did NEVER burned children (some of course did, but those were criminals)

Don't you realisze that this sentence is false, only because it's in conflict with itself? First, you've said that they "never did this", then you add that "some of them of course did". Don't you see that it sounds ridiculous?

Of course, I beleive that there were a lot of good people who fought vs. nazism, but what you and your government of that time did with those people? Killed them.

Lithuanians didn't ever killed blacks or Asians or whatever you told.

You twist my words, it was a list of inferior races in accordance with Hitler. If you had them among your population, you should have been kill them in accordance with your mastrer's doctrine. A doctrine of final solution which you prefer to communism.

As for graves of Soviet people you are very wrong.

Am I? Your words below proves that I'm not.

In most places all graves are remaining, even with these Soviet symbols.

In the most places IN THE MOST PLACES
It means that even you can't deny acts of vandalism against graves of Soviet soldiers who died in war vs. nazism. As for me it's unthinkable to do such things. Only real barbarians could raze the graves of soldiers who fought vs. "plague of XX century".

Nothing was destroyed from them. For example, in the main central park of Palanga, not even graveyard, there is grave/monument for Soviet troops and it wasn't destroyed.

You saying about this as about great acheivment of your culture- "Look everybody, we did't destroyed this monument......................yet."

No, WE ARE NOT teached in schools that Russians are bandits, we see that ourselves.

Nazi: no, we are not teached in schools that Jews and Slavs are parasites, we see that ourselves.

I DON'T say all Russians are bullies, I talked about ones who live in Lithuania.

And you dare to say that this is not a nazi statement? Only a nazi could say such thing. In other words: no, I don't say that all Russians are crap, only the ones who live in Baltic states are crap. Great!!! Furthermore, sometimes only Russian speech is enough reason for you to hate absolutely unknown people. And you are saying that this is not a nazi behavior when you start to insult absolutely unknown men, only because he is speaking on Russian language. I have a vitness to prove my words. (It's not necessary that he will agree with me, but he is a fair men) Sir Ralph could tell you about his experience in shop of one of the Baltic States (I don't remeber where it was). When he was insulted and denied to be served by shop personal only because he was talking on Russian.

Unlike for example Polish minority, these Russians never assimilated into culture and they still thinks Russia is superior. And when I watch criminal news, about 50% of criminals are Russians, wjhile only 8% of people are Russians.

I'm not surpised, considering what image of Russian you have in your society. You know, nazi blaimed Jews and other 'inferior races' in all crimes and deadly sins. You saying that you blame Russians in half of all crimes. Nice going, keep up the good work!

We treat our nazi as heroes? We currently have most of them in jail or courts! Learn something before saying that Serb. And our veterans has their clubs and bigger social guarantees, I certainly know that as I know one veteran.

Strange, I saw on TV how Soviet veteran was saying how his privelegies were took from him and given to SS veterans. Also I saw how proud SS verterans marched on parade not so long ago. I just don't remember in which of 3 Baltic States it had happen exactly.

We create nazi monuments? You are maybe stupid or what? Please name at least one such a monument

A monument dedicated to honor of Estonian SS soldiers which was placed in Talin not so long ago. A monument which represent figure wearing nazi uniform.Fortunately after official protests of Russian Federation it was removed. Before you start shout that I'm moron... I know where Talin is located and that it isn't in Lithuania. It is you who didn't noticed that I'm angry because treatment of Russians in all three Baltic States which were former Soviet republics. In Lithuania I guess the situation is better then in remaining two countries. But you keep prooving that I'm mistaken about this.

Russians doesn't change, Now they does the same in Chechnya.

That's why there is a street in one of the Baltic states which named in honor of Jahar Dudaev. A man who ordered to cut people's fingers, arms, genitalies and heads, who ordered to took peregent women and just borned children to hostages. Nice.

Russians are woithout civil rights? LEARN HISTORY! In Lithuania, they have all rights and citizenship. Don't mix Latvia and Lithuania please.

As I said I guess that life of Russians who live in Lithuania is better then in Latvia and Estonia.So, you don't deny that in Latvia Russians don't have rights and citizenship? There are a lot of cases in European human rights court from Russians who treated as second grade humans in Baltic States.

IN MY OPINION EVERYONE IS HUMAN, It is not so in your opinion however, you think Russians are superior and can do what they wants and all others are only second grade humans,

Blah...blah...blah.... Russians hate people from Baltic States who live in Russia? News to me. Russians treat people from Baltic states or anyone who talk on their language as crap and second grade humans? News to me. Russians don't give citizenships to people from Baltic states who live here? News to me. Russians pushing people from Baltic states who live here away from Russia? News to me. Russians blame modern people who live in Baltic States that their SS legions participated in killing millions of Russians during WW2? News to me.

maybe you are undercover Zhironovski?

Only a morons could treat such morons as Zhirinovski seriously, I'm not one of his fans.

Yes in 1939 SU annexed Lithuania and not defending from nazis but instead cooperating with them. They defended only when nazis attacked. And they defended SU, not Lithuania.

SU annexed all three Baltic at Summer of 1940. You don't know your own history?

Also, as Serb said that under Hitler many Lithuanians would be forced to work in SS, etc.

And you want to deny this?

About the same amount in fact was forced to work for analogical Soviet structures.

Twisting the history again, boy? Nice. Soviet Union never had structures which main goal was extermination of entire nationalities as Jews or Slavs including children and elders in fires and gas chambers of death camps. Never SU had "facilities" where humans were burned alive and poisoned. SU never had facilites where soap was produced out of remains of human bodies and where bag were produced out of human leather. I could continue this list very long.

You don't have any arguement shy Soviet Union is better than third reich (because it isn't better but worse, much worse).

Shy? First you portrayed Soviets as brutal occupants, now you are saying that they were... shy... very funny.

In Germany there was at least capitalsim, thus economy wouldn't be destroyed. And every clever/rich/powerful Lithuanian wouldn't be killed/exiled/sent to mental hospitals. That means much less Lithuanians would be killed. And yet again, no more Lithuanians would be forced to work in Hitleristic structures when were forced to work in Soviet structures.

Don't you realize that those are the words of real nazi.Do you ever heard that someone of modern Germans said: " I would like to live under Hitler's rule, because in times of nazi there was capitalism and economy was great. And Hitler don't heart Germans, in fact he took care about them. He only ordered to burn, poison and kill Jews, Slavs, Black and other 'human crap'. BUT ECONOMY WAS GREAT!!!"
Do you ever heard something of that kind? I guess no, because aside you modern Germans are not nazi.

Sorry for harsh words people, but I am currently very angry. That guy calls me **** for nothing, I don't know why you think he shouldn't be banned cause he obviously has certain troubles and can't discuss or even LEARN things before starting discussing and talks absolute non-sense using word "f*ck" as an arguement.

I used a lot of insults because you deserve it. And I don't used this word as argument, I used it as an insult.

Well, as I am now a bit calmer...

I guess you are surprised that my current post didn't contain personal insults toward you. Now, when you are calm down a bit...it's time to fix this....Surprise, surprise....****ing mother****er, neo-nazi scum. Have a nice ****ing day mr. nazisonic.

[Combat Ingrid]

Well...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Those were the days......

Boy the way Glen Miller played,
songs that made the hit parade,
guys like us we had it made,
those were the days,

and you know where you were then,
girls were girls and men were men,
mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again,

didn't need no welfare states,
everybody pulled his weight,
gee our old Lasalle ran great,
those were the days!

[Timexwatch]

Wondering if the SU was good for Eastern Europe is like asking wether or not Cortez was good for the Aztecs or the British good for the Aborigiones or the Americans good for the Phillippines. The answer is always no.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


It says Israel is in Asia. But that's about where the similarity ends.

Okay, what continent is it on?