Why I believe capitalism is morally wrong and evil...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Just because I believe that corporations should follow certain moral and ethical guidelines, does not mean I'm not for laissez faire. But I just think that peoples lives are more important than profits. Energy and transit are areas that I'm not completely set on. But health care? Come on... how can any moral human being say that corporations should be allowed to profit off of death, disease, and disability?

I can see that, but you aren't really lassiez faire then . That's not a bad thing to say.

I believe I originally said 'almost laissez faire' anyways. As long as businesses in consumer industries are run fairly (to both consumers and workers) I see no reason for government involvement.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher


Just how low are their standards? You don't know a damn thing about computers from what you've posted on these forums.
And I could have sworn you talked about how qualified you were to talk about economics in another thread since that's what you studied.

But the fact is you're not in computer science. IIA offers a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Game Art and Design. That's not computer science, Sava dear...not even close.

You may as well be going to somewhere like Full Sail and getting a game design diploma...

Yeah, I guess the fact that I have been building computers since 1992 doesn't matter, or the fact that I've spent two years at an accredited university taking computer science courses, or the fact that I know C++, java, pearl, some A, html... geez... I guess it doesn't matter than I worked at ww.grainger when I was 17 running and maintaining the network at their branch office in downers grove, IL... I guess it doesn't matter that I worked at Edward's hospital in Naperville being their all purpose computer person; building their computers, setting up their OS's, maintaining their networks... man I sure don't know a damn thing....

compared to some jerk off microsoft fan boy...

I transferred to IIA for two reasons... 1) I hate programming but I love working with 3D art, sound, and other media... DePaul has a terrible 3D art program... IIA has the focus on game design (which is what I want to do)

2) Job placement... IIA has over a 90% job placement rate for graduates with salaries starting at $45k US. The teachers are people who work in the industry; know the industry; and have friends in the industry. DePaul has 0 job placement programs for the gaming industry.

I never said I majored economics, I said I minored in it for a year, which I did... and I don't know how many other times I've said, "I don't know sh!t about business"... ASher, you're an idiot, and you don't bother to read half the stuff I post, do everyone a favor and go play in traffic...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sava
Yeah, I guess the fact that I have been building computers since 1992 doesn't matter

That's right, it doesn't matter.

or the fact that I've spent two years at an accredited university taking computer science courses, or the fact that I know C++, java, pearl, some A, html... geez... I guess it doesn't matter than I worked at ww.grainger when I was 17 running and maintaining the network at their branch office in downers grove, IL... I guess it doesn't matter that I worked at Edward's hospital in Naperville being their all purpose computer person; building their computers, setting up their OS's, maintaining their networks... man I sure don't know a damn thing....

You can list off all of your knowledge you claim to have, but you've yet to demonstrate any of it here and have actually shown a complete ignorance on almost all computer threads you've posted in.

The fact that you switched out of a real CS course to some artsy course says volumes about just how well you know your stuff.

I transferred to IIA for two reasons... 1) I hate programming but I love working with 3D art, sound, and other media... DePaul has a terrible 3D art program... IIA has the focus on game design (which is what I want to do)

You could get a real degree and still do games design, you know. My university offers a BSc in Computer Science with a concentration in Games Design. You've gotta take a whole assortment of art, physics, math, programming, project management, hardware, etc courses. Then again, it's a real degree, not some fine arts degree that would get you laughed out of most big name employer as a game designer.

But it all makes so much more sense now. You're smarter than most other people here, taking a fine arts degree because you couldn't handle a real science degree.

BTW, programming is only one aspect of computer science. You could get a BSc in compsci with only taking basic programming courses these days. Basically what you're saying to me is you hated the actual science part of Computer Science, and you're more interested in the artsy aspect of it, which you seem to think there's a big future in with lots of room to grow inside a company.



Well if you think that, good luck to you. Have you talked to any real corporate recruiters about what they expect once you graduate? I think you'll be in for quite a big surprise...

[Ned]

Originally posted by DrSpike


I sympathise, but you still seem to me to be missing that it is the very pursuit of profit that leads to cures to diseases being found at all. This goes for all innovation......you probably realise it can't all be publicly funded.

The closer you get to communism the weaker the incentives for innovation are........and it is technologically induced rises in productivity that underpin all rises in the standard of living.

Very good point.

Next Sava will be arguing against patents and copyrights. He will argue that we should socialize inventions and works of authorship!

“Let inventors and authors get only their salaries and let the public enjoy the benefits their creativity without further compensation. It is “immoral� that they should be able to collect royalties in the millions and get rich off the sweat and blood of the average working man! Down with Intellectual Property!� quoth Sava.

[Roland]

I guess a lot of this argument how important colonialism was is based on the old schoolbook myth of the dark ages. It's really difficult to seriously debate this with remarks like:

Gepap:

"A mapmaker in 1490 would have placed Jerusalem, the birthplace of Christ, in the middle of the map."

Sorry, but total bull****. Look at early 14th century maps from the Mallorca school. Look at the materials Columbus used (or even better, those the Portuguese used to reject his plan; they were right).

"The amount of gold an silver brought form the americas was so immense that it certainly increased the overall amount of money drastically."

Printing loads of Marks increased the german money supply drastically up to 1923. Had really great results.

Gold and silver from America did allow Spain to level a sort of inflation tax on its possessions and in the end on all of Europe. How this process supposedly induced the industrial revolution still has to be explained. Any takers ?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher
But it all makes so much more sense now. You're smarter than most other people here, taking a fine arts degree because you couldn't handle a real science degree.

Yeah, that's why I've got a 3.4 (on 4 scale). It's not the actual degree program I was upset with, its the lack of industry connections. Graduating at DePaul, I'd be just another out of work IT person.

Well if you think that, good luck to you. Have you talked to any real corporate recruiters about what they expect once you graduate? I think you'll be in for quite a big surprise...

One of my best friends is a VP at Collective Technologies, a network consulting firm in Chicago. He's been through the industry. He doesn't have any degree, yet he makes 60k plus per year at the age of 26.

A degree is just a piece of paper Asher. Companies don't give have a crap where your degree is from, or what it's in. The care more about experience and knowledge.

I have the experience, I have the knowledge, IIA is going to guide me into the type of job I want (and at about 1/3 of the cost of DePaul).

It's nice that you think you know things, but don't be afraid to listen to people who know what they are talking about.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ned


Very good point.

Next Sava will be arguing against patents and copyrights. He will argue that we should socialize inventions and works of authorship!

“Let inventors and authors get only their salaries and let the public enjoy the benefits their creativity without further compensation. It is “immoral� that they should be able to collect royalties in the millions and get rich off the sweat and blood of the average working man! Down with Intellectual Property!� quoth Sava.

Real inventors, authors, and artists create things for the sake of creation... but this asinine statement just goes to show how ... err I'm going to stop myself, insulting you wouldn't be worth the restriction...

Don't put words into people's mouths... especially when you don't know sh!t.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sava
Yeah, that's why I've got a 3.4 (on 4 scale). It's not the actual degree program I was upset with, its the lack of industry connections. Graduating at DePaul, I'd be just another out of work IT person.

Really? Just how well do you understand what CS is? IT people don't get CS degrees in general anymore, they get an MIS degree or a diploma from a CC...

A degree is just a piece of paper Asher. Companies don't give have a crap where your degree is from, or what it's in. The care more about experience and knowledge.

Companies care about how well you can think, how well you can learn, the diversity of your knowledge and experience, and your leadership/teamworking abilities. When you get a degree in fine arts, most employers will look at the applicants and see someone with a real science degree and someone with a fine arts degree -- I wonder who they think will know their stuff more?

You remind me of the 40 year old computer programmers who insist their 20 years of programming experience is way better than a degree can ever get them. And then they get surprised that they never, or very rarely, get promoted as the new BSc guys get promoted over him.

But obviously IIA has told you that a fine arts degree is just as valuable as a BSc, so who am I to conflict with their marketing?

[Eli]

Look!

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3568564828

[Ned]

Originally posted by Roland
I guess a lot of this argument how important colonialism was is based on the old schoolbook myth of the dark ages. It's really difficult to seriously debate this with remarks like:

Gepap:

"A mapmaker in 1490 would have placed Jerusalem, the birthplace of Christ, in the middle of the map."

Sorry, but total bull****. Look at early 14th century maps from the Mallorca school. Look at the materials Columbus used (or even better, those the Portuguese used to reject his plan; they were right).

"The amount of gold an silver brought form the americas was so immense that it certainly increased the overall amount of money drastically."

Printing loads of Marks increased the german money supply drastically up to 1923. Had really great results.

Gold and silver from America did allow Spain to level a sort of inflation tax on its possessions and in the end on all of Europe. How this process supposedly induced the industrial revolution still has to be explained. Any takers ?

Roland, The gold certainly introduced a lot of liquidity into Europe. Spanish spending also increased overall demand to pull the economy ahead at a great rate. I suggest that what happened in Spain and the rest of Europe is similar to what happened in the US as result of WWII. Capacity was fully utilized and expanded. There was full employment - indeed, perhaps a profound labor shortage. Standards of living in Spain undoubtedly skyrocketed.

The need to build ships rapidly also created the first factories - this from Connections.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava

Yeah, that's why I've got a 3.4 (on 4 scale). It's not the actual degree program I was upset with, its the lack of industry connections. Graduating at DePaul, I'd be just another out of work IT person.

One of my best friends is a VP at Collective Technologies, a network consulting firm in Chicago. He's been through the industry. He doesn't have any degree, yet he makes 60k plus per year at the age of 26.

A degree is just a piece of paper Asher. Companies don't give have a crap where your degree is from, or what it's in. The care more about experience and knowledge.

I have the experience, I have the knowledge, IIA is going to guide me into the type of job I want (and at about 1/3 of the cost of DePaul).

It's nice that you think you know things, but don't be afraid to listen to people who know what they are talking about.

Who the heck has been feeding you this crap? DePaul has one of the best CS programs in the country. Two, almost everyone I knew in the CS program got a job, even the retarded guy.

A degree may not be important in your twenties, but the lack of one is begining to hurt me now. I've risen about as far as I can go, without a degree. The tech bubble is over, and they want people that can demonstrate stick-to-itiveness, which is what a degree really represents.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sava




Real inventors, authors, and artists create things for the sake of creation... but this asinine statement just goes to show how ... err I'm going to stop myself, insulting you wouldn't be worth the restriction...

Don't put words into people's mouths... especially when you don't know sh!t.

In a way yes and in a way no. The problem is money to develop the inventions, or to play the music or to make the film. In order to do this, one needs some guarantee against piracy.

[chequita guevara]

Not for works of art, Ned. It's the market that creates an incentive to steal someone else's work and present it as your own. Most of the stuff that "artists" create isn't art but is entertainment, and there is a difference.

Anyway, the Constitutional purpose of copywrite is to encourage new work. Letting a person write one masterpeice and sit on the revenues for 95 years doesn' encourage anyone.

[DinoDoc]

Well the SCOTUS is hearing a case on that very issue right now IIRC.

[Sava]

People should be able to charge whatever they want for their own works... if its too high, then people won't buy (nice rhyme ) but if you invent a pill that costs 1 cent to make and makes people perfectly happy, or cures cancer... it is morally wrong to extort people for it. I'm not saying it should be free, just fairly priced, or licensed for a large lump sum. I find it utterly disturbing that the health care system in the US holds old people hostage and extorts them for prescription drugs that they need.