Why I believe capitalism is morally wrong and evil...

[connorkimbro]

Wheres this fantastical fictional greed monster who controls the entire worlds supply of money, sava?

Fact: the only monopolies that continue to exist as monopolies do so with the HELP of the government (for example, the us postal service has a monopoly on first class mail. or when the long distance phone companies HAD monopolies, since they don't any longer. (and prices have gone WAY down since then))


All other "monopolies" don't stay that way very long, and CERTAINLY aren't able to force people to buy anything they make anyway. If the price is too high, consumers WILL go elsewhere, or go without.

And you probably won't believe any of this, because your communist discussion group leader tells you not to believe it, but that doesn't change the way it is.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher
And I'm not sure you understand what proprietary means, you're using it a lot but I don't think you're using it right.

I'm using it in the context of Xunzi from "Human Nature is Evil". Try reading some time.

[Asher]

Sava, that just made my day.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sava
I'm using it in the context of Xunzi from "Human Nature is Evil". Try reading some time.

Why would I need to read a book from Xunzi about one of the most basic things there is? That's probably where you fall short, you rely too much on everyone else's brain instead of yours and jump on a bandwagon.

Greed is the whole reason communism doesn't work. It's why it failed in the USSR.

Greed is a natural instinct of both mothers and fathers to hoard resources for their family for their own survival.

Sharing is most certainly not a natural instinct, it's a learned trait.

But of course, a book from Xunzi apparently disagrees so obviously this is false.

[Sava]

Originally posted by connorkimbro
Wheres this fantastical fictional greed monster who controls the entire worlds supply of money, sava?

drop your stereotypical blather at the door please...

Fact: the only monopolies that continue to exist as monopolies do so with the HELP of the government (for example, the us postal service has a monopoly on first class mail. or when the long distance phone companies USED to have monopolies)

That's exactly my point. I'm urging people to vote and take back their government.

All other "monopolies" don't stay that way very long, and CERTAINLY aren't able to force people to buy anything they make anyway. If the price is too high, consumers WILL go elsewhere, or go without.

ahem... the oil industry is a collection of monopolies that collectively set the market on oil. They pay off automakers to not introduce fuel efficient, or alternative fuel vehicles.

And you probably won't believe any of this, because your communist discussion group leader tells you not to believe it, but that doesn't change the way it is.

Bah, I am the discussion group leader

disclaimer: If you plan on arguing against me, don't be ignorant, and prepare to have intelligent rebuttles. Swatting flies isn't much of a challenge for me.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Sava


Greed is not part of human nature, it is a learned behavior. For two million years, up until the last few hundred, human beings had a very communal existence with the planet and each other. Nomadic and agrarian tribes of people populated vast areas, taking only what they needed and left the rest. But with the rise of European Imperialism, the Western world has turned into a vicious swarm of locusts. America is just the most successful spawn of this. You should really learn about human history before you go spouting off what you claim to be human nature.

You have a much more inspired and benign outlook on human nature than I. Since we have very limitted historical information to base the whole sweep of human history (I don't know how one can say what peoples motive were 2 million years ago) making conjecture on prehistorical folks motivations is problematic. What we can do is try to look at those folks not spoiled, tainted by their environment. A child by nature is one of the greediest creatures. Only by learned behavior can one curb the natural behaviors and teach a child to share. I purport that it is man's base nature that normally exists and only through environmental conditioning is it reigned in. I think that man's base motives ultimately become the strongest drivers.

[Starchild]

Also (just remembered!) in nature, symbiosis and cooperation can benefit just as much, if not more than competition. All advanced life is based on the fact that two ancient cells forgoed competing and cooperated, trading one's talents with oxygen respiration for the safe haven of the other's cytoplasm. Multicellular creatures are only possible due to the communal sharing of resources between cells.

The moral of the story? Don't use nature to justify your economic views. We biologists then start quoting stuff and dithering on and no body really wins.

*we know return to your regularly scheduled *****ing*

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher

Why would I need to read a book from Xunzi about one of the most basic things there is? That's probably where you fall short, you rely too much on everyone else's brain instead of yours and jump on a bandwagon.

Greed is the whole reason communism doesn't work. It's why it failed in the USSR.

Greed is a natural instinct of both mothers and fathers to hoard resources for their family for their own survival.

Sharing is most certainly not a natural instinct, it's a learned trait.

But of course, a book from Xunzi apparently disagrees so obviously this is false.

pfft, again, you should read the disclaimer, its too easy for me to point out your basic ignorance... I'm quoting other people on such things as philosophy and sociology become they have spent their lives studying such issues; I have not. A wise person admits their own ignorance and learns from others.

Hmmmm, who do I believe, a philosophical scholar, or some 19 year old twit who probably doesn't read anything outside of PopCulture mags and video game web sites.

[Sava]

The only inate human quality that could be described as nature would be survival. A human will be greedy and take what it needs to survive. But the type of greed exhibited in modern humans (i.e. capitalism) is learned.

[DrSpike]

What an idiotic initial post.

Pay broadly follows productivity. Firms charge only what people are willing to pay.

Most markets are not monopolies, and those that are are regulated, albeit badly at times.

Don't know where you got the boeing example from, it clearly isn't true.

Profit signals, far from being evil are PRECISELY the thing that ensures the economy produces the goods you demand.

FACT: capitalism has lead to an increase in living standards that dwarfs anything any alternative could have offered.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Starchild
I'm never sure why people are so eager to refer to capitalism in terms of Darwinism. Darwinism isn't a very good thing endear an economic system to people as ecologies basically balance on a knife edge. One slip in the balance and ecologies come crashing down. Hell, they all come crashing down eventually. Evolution only works due to the fact that, given enough time, dumb luck will work in your favour.

I'd hope that capitalism is a bit more stable than that.

So your telling me that whole sectors of industry never collapse?

And yes, time is the key element in both.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Sava
Yup, I see I have the classic moronic responses; but note, no intelligent arguments against my posts.

When I get back from looking for my second job....(something that wouldn't happen in communism) I'll tell you why you are so misguided.

[Starchild]

No, I'm saying that in evolution, dumb luck is an overriding factor and that I'd hope the global economic system would be organised along better lines than random chance.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Sava
The only inate human quality that could be described as nature would be survival. A human will be greedy and take what it needs to survive. But the type of greed exhibited in modern humans (i.e. capitalism) is learned.

Couldn't disagree further, the myth of humans being noble by nature. Humans desire survival and once that is secured desire power to ensure a sort of immortality.

[DinoDoc]

Greed is Good!