Greatest Composer of all time?

[Hobbes]

Satie

[The Vagabond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Greatest Composer of all time?

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
... Russia's undisputed greatest opera, Boris Godunov

I am not a particular opera connoisseur, but I know some and even like some arias and chorus. It remains beyond me what you found in "Boris Godunov". There are much better Russian operas out there, with great arias and chorus. F.e. "Sadko", "Evgeny Onegin", "Life for the tzar" (renamed "Ivan Susanin" for political reasons), "Prince Igor". As for "Boris Godunov", I don't recall a single good aria. Under the influence of your nickname , I even found Boris aria online, but remained unimpressed. Well, I believe your tastes are too exquisite, Boris.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Not knowing Rimsky-Korsakov is a little harder to fathom. Scheharazade and The Flight of the Bumblebee are pretty well-known.

Also, "Snegurochka" with a really marvellous Lehl's aria.

[JohnT]

Perhaps I shoulda voted for my boy Mozart after all.

[monolith94]

"Drop Grieg, Saint-Saens and Rimsky-Korsakov and replace them with Mussorgsky, Monteverdi and Bizet."

Don't you DARE drop Rimsky-Korsakov!!!
He's number 1 in MY book!
I hate flight of the bumble bee though…
The main reason is, I could literally listen to Scheherzade for hours on end… It could be the soundtrack to my life…

[Ned]

My top choices are strangely not on the list:

Mahler and Puccini

Of those on the list: Mozart

[Boris Godunov]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Greatest Composer of all time?

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I am not a particular opera connoisseur, but I know some and even like some arias and chorus. It remains beyond me what you found in "Boris Godunov". There are much better Russian operas out there, with great arias and chorus. F.e. "Sadko", "Evgeny Onegin", "Life for the tzar" (renamed "Ivan Susanin" for political reasons), "Prince Igor". As for "Boris Godunov", I don't recall a single good aria. Under the influence of your nickname , I even found Boris aria online, but remained unimpressed. Well, I believe your tastes are too exquisite, Boris.

Boris Godunov is not the most tuneful of opera, but music isn't always about catchy tunes. What makes Boris the epitome of Russian opera are several things:

1) Scope. The scope of the opera is epic. When it is over, you feel like you have witnessed a part of Russian history. Rarely, if ever, has a staged work outside of Shakespeare been able to give such an impression.
2) It is uniquely Russian. All the operas you mentioned, while indeed great, are also very Westernized in influence and sounds. Mussorgsky, being a mostly self-taught composer, relied on the traditional Russian folk music for his inspiration. The opera is replete with Russian folk tunes, and Mussorgsky's orchestrations are unique to opera, incorporating traditional instruments and sounds.
3) Characterization. Even the smallest characters in the opera are given full musical treatment that makes them real, flesh-and-blood people. There are no stock characters here. Mussorgsky had a gift for portraying people through music. We feel the crushing weight of Boris's guilt, the vanity of Marina Mnshek, the piety of Pimen. The chorus is a character unto itself, moreso than in any other opera. They equal Boris in terms of importance, making the Russian people a hero of the opera.
4) Yes, the music. Mussorgsky was not interested in the traditional aria-chorus-recitative etc. mode of opera, wherein there are all those catchy set-pieces. He was moving into the Wagnerian mode of music drama, wherein a continuous musical story is told. He also modeled much of the vocal lines on the patterns of Russian speech.

There are some knock-out selections in the opera, though the individual arias aren't really the kind for concert pieces like one would find in Puccini. In fact, removing the arias from the dramatic context would be a bad idea, since that's not what Mussordsky intended. Still, the Coronation Scene is one of opera's biggest and best numbers. It is in the chorus moments where Mussorgsky really pulled out the stops. The Kromy Forest scene and the St. Basil scene also stand out for them. Boris's best moments are the Clock Scene (in the right hands, perhaps opera's most frightening mad scene) and his Prayer and Death. I can think of few instances in opera where death was so effectively portrayed than in his final moments. Other standouts include Pimen's Tale and Varlaam's Song, Marina's Aria and the spectacular Love Duet between Marina and Dmitri (easily in the top among operatic duets).

[SpencerH]

John Lennon

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by monolith94
"Drop Grieg, Saint-Saens and Rimsky-Korsakov and replace them with Mussorgsky, Monteverdi and Bizet."

Don't you DARE drop Rimsky-Korsakov!!!
He's number 1 in MY book!
I hate flight of the bumble bee though…
The main reason is, I could literally listen to Scheherzade for hours on end… It could be the soundtrack to my life…

Rimsky was fun, yes. His claim to fame, IMO, is that he was a master orchestrator, and his role in teaching Stravinsky was significant. He is certainly one of the greats of Russian music. But as a composer, his contribution was not that significant. A lot of his music is pretty standard and (dare I say it) dull. He could whip out some great tunes.

Another thing to his credit is his rigorous collection and notation of Russian folk music. This was perhaps his most invaluable contribution to musicology.

I'd put him in a tier below the "greats," in the "Very Goods." Among the Russians, he holds a place below Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Prokofiev and Stravinsky.

I'd also like to mention Shostakovich. He certainly was significant, and he does hold the honor of the single greatest string quartet of the 20th Century, the No. 8 in C Minor.

[Winston]

All of those listed used to do some fairly good composing. Now they're mostly decomposing.

I'd have to go with J.S. Bach. I especially love his Brandenburg Concertos and the fugaes.

[Boris Godunov]

Shhh, the maestro is decomposing!

[monolith94]

They're decomposing composers…
There's nothing much anyone can do…
-Monty Python

The thing is though, BG, I've only ever heard Scheherezade and flight of the Bumble Bee.
I'm curious to know what you think of Scheherezade in relation to the rest of his work… do you think it's better or worse?
Like I said though, Sch. is my SINGLE favorite classical piece!

[Buck Birdseed]

Surely Grieg is known for two bits out of Peer Gynt rather than one.

[Boris Godunov]

Two bits, four bits, six bits a peso
All who're for Zorro, stand up and say so!

Sorry...hehe

Grieg was a great composer, undeniably. But they can't all be number 1, and in terms of musical significance, he is a blip next to Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc.

Monolith:

Scheherazade is certainly the most notable of Rimsky's compositions. I personally can't tolerate the Bumblebee thing too much. Another piece of his I enjoy a lot is the Russian Easter Festival Overture, which also incorporates some Russian liturgical music. The Capriccio Espagnol is another fun piece.

I guess that's the best category for Rimsky--fun compositions that aren't taxing on the brain. Did they expand the musical language any? No. Were the masterpieces of form? No. Were they really important within the context of musical history? Not too much.

But who cares? You enjoy it, so that's all you need. Music touches everyone in different ways for different reasons. Whether or not a work is "significant" in the history of music should be absolutely irrelevant to your enjoyment of it. I am personally separating my personal tastes in music from my opinion on musical significance in this thread, which is why I picked Bach over Brahms. In fact, I would have to pick a lot of these guys over Brahms in that regard, including Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart and Wagner. But i still enjoy listening to Brahms more than any other composer.

[Bereta_Eder]

german composers are overated they anit worth a damn