It is done...Dutch right wing governement collapses

[Robert]

rephrase that

Ja, ik ben gefrustreerd over al die vooroordelen waar je als christen tegen moet vechten.

conservative christians are the ones under fire. Liberal christians are not. The latter care more for "treat your neighbours like yourself", than wether or not abortion should be legal or not.

oh well, conservative liberals push their morals through the troats of others as well. But since they are in the majority, nobody cares. If I zap the tv, walk on street, etc. I have to watch nudity.

I have to listen to swearing, during our services we have to be bothered by the kermis.

But indeed, don't push your morals up to others.
I wish that other, non-christians, would do the same. (in general of course)

[Saint Marcus]

I have to listen to swearing, during our services we have to be bothered by the kermis.

well yeah, that does suck. But few liberals would claim that (extreme) swearing is a freedom people should have. I certainly don't. I don't care if someone lets out the occasional cussword, but there are limits.

But indeed, don't push your morals up to others.
I wish that other, non-christians, would do the same. (in general of course)

indeed. I agree. and that's why I don't agree with most (other) christians.

conservative christians want to forbit euthanasia, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

conservative christians want to forbit abortion, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves (and no, a 2 week old baby is not a sentient being).

conservative christians want to forbit pornography, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

conservative christians want to forbit marihuana, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

conservative christians want to forbit gay-marriages. I believe people should chose for themselves.


You may use the slippery slope argument. What if people want to use harddrugs. What if people want to participate in streetraces on the A2. etc. Well, anything is ok in my book, if you don't hurt others. Nobody gets hurt from two gays marrying. Those gays that get married do get hurt (emotionally) from the the things some christians say to them (you're sinners, you're going to hell if you don't stop your sinful lives, etc).

[Robert]

I think I am a conservative christian,
I believe the bible is thrue. I'm not a "ter Linde" christian who think it's all a fairy tale. It's not as if I think we should adopt the conservative lifestyle. Christianity is not a lifestyle. People mix that up. (read: christians mix that up)

conservative christians want to forbit euthanasia, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

that's true. Be sure though that people don't get forced into it, and all that. BUt I think the current law is good enough for that.

conservative christians want to forbit abortion, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves (and no, a 2 week old baby is not a sentient being).

If the mother had a choise, it is not allowed, unless she's ill and all that. Thus, if the mother had no choise (rape, incest, etc.) it's not allowed.

A 2 week baby is not a sentient being, pherhaps, but it is a being. And you do cut of an OTHER life. Of course opinions differ on the matter if a baby is a being.

But abortus is not a personal thing. You kill a baby.
And if i say that people should kill other people, that's ok for me to say. Thus I can't see why I can't see you can't kill other babies. Anyway, I will never kill a doctor or something. And I won't act much on this opinion.

I am pro-choise.
- you're free to chose to have s*x or not.
- you're free to chose to use anti-conception.

conservative christians want to forbit pornography, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

think so. But be sure it's kept away from children, and people who don't want to be bothered with it.

conservative christians want to forbit marihuana, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

I think that's right on the first sight.
But marihuana and all other kinds of drugs have some social impact. But, since forbidding it wont take away the social impact, plain forbidding it is no good.

But this society would be a better place if people wouldn't drink too much, and use drugs. And yes, unfortunately the good users are suffering under the bad ones, which is a pitty.

But eventhough smokers don't harm anybody, they're hunted down, and drugs users and drinkers are hardly facing any pressure to mellow down.

conservative christians want to forbit gay-marriages. I believe people should chose for themselves.

think so.

(you're sinners, you're going to hell if you don't stop your sinful lives, etc).

We all live sinful lives. In the afterlife we will be with God, or seperated from God. It depends on your choise in this life. Do you want to be with God? That's ok, and follow Him. Do you not want to be with God, then you won't be. It would be a shame if people who don't want to be with God have to be with him though, wouldn't it?

[Saint Marcus]

I'm more a Ter Linde christian

anyway, news from the Hague.

the two new parties in the last election, Livable Netherlands and List Pim Fortuyn have split.

LN will be split in: Livable Netherlands (Teeven) and New Netherlands (Nagel)

LPF will be split in: List Pim Fortuyn (Nawijn, Herben), List New Politics (Heinsbroek, Wijnschenk) and The Conservatives (De Jong, Ebenhart).

The following parties may have a chance of getting one or more seats in the 2nd Chamber:

traditional parties, certain of one or more seats:

Labour
Liberals
Christian Democrats
Green Left
Socialist Party
Christian Union
Democrats
Reformist Party

New and/or small parties, will have to fight to gain any seats:

List Pim Fortuyn
List New Politics
Conservatives
New Netherlands
Livable Netherlands
Senior citizens parties
The Community (new islamic party)

[Ribannah]

So, who is going to vote in January?

[germanos]

Saint Marcos:

could you PLEASE change Reformed Party into Reformists Party or something the like?

Foreigners might get the wrong idea.
(I suppose you mean the well discussed SGP by Reformed Party )
the -ism at the end should give them the well-intentend itch.

[Ribannah]

I don't know, they always come across as pretty de- er, I mean, re-formed.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Ribannah
So, who is going to vote in January?

I ALWAYS vote.

Last 'gemeenteraads'-elections for the first time I voted 'blanco' in the 'deelgemeenteraads'-elections. Really al the parties sucked. (i had the choice of 5 parties). I really wonder why the politicians think that ever decreasing the influence of electable 'bodies' is going to inspire people to vote. My guess is the opposite would do more good.

The same with the bloody 'referenda'. I mean: I cast my vote every now and then, and then I want these people to do the job they are hired for, and not bother me with voting for every littly thing they cannot decide on. :doitnow:
Offcourse I don't want that Highway in my backyard, but hey: how do I know if it fits in the big picture?

[Lemmy]

New and/or small parties, will have to fight to gain any seats:

List Pim Fortuyn
List New Politics
Conservatives
New Netherlands
Livable Netherlands
Senior citizens parties
The Community (new islamic party)

Don't forget the Future Party, or Party of the Future

[germanos]

Or the Infinite Split-Up Party (AKA Lemming-Party)!

[Saint Marcus]

Or the Infinite Split-Up Party

isn't that the LPF?

[germanos]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
isn't that the LPF?

No the LPF is the List Personal Favoratism.
Something else completely

[Saint Marcus]

more news: if cda+vvd don't get a majority, Zalm wants to form a coalition with D66 or the CU.