Teenage Depression - Epidemic or overblown?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Asher:

Great let's all accept this theory that human beings NEED drugs because they are incapable of stable emotion...

why did we have no such problems for centuries?

We did have problems for centuries, they're just repeatedly pushed under the rug.

You think suicide is a modern thing only?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
Go on, demand I rip into him. I can see 7 faults in his last post alone...

Go for it. I want to learn more about it anyway.

I guess this is your field?

[Al B. Sure!]

Also whatever happened to going to your priest when things went wrong? What happened to spirituality and people coping with their problems and dealing with them at the source?

Instead our priests are the psychologists... our God and salvation goes by the name Prozac


thanks

[Evil Knevil]

It's not my field, I'm a journalist. It's just one of those things I happen to know (like my extensive knowledge of Byzantine history, computers...) Anyway, as soon as I get my scanner working, I'll try and get some of my more compelling notes.

I just said... something bad happens to you and your logically and consciously feel sad.

Firstly the whole conscious/unconscious dichotomy thing sort of died out in the 1960's. Irrationality, emotion, then 'moved' to the 'limbic system' a brain circuit. However these day’s this has been discredited. Now the brain is far too complex to go into this further, but as far as is known, the only unconscious systems are the old sex/food/water/air type stuff.

Anyhows the logically sad system is not linked to the chemical pathways associated with depression. 'Logically' feeling sad is linked mostly to memory(hippocampus), and amygdala structures in the brain.....

My girlfriend dumped me(memory)---------->? probably some limbic structure--------------> amygdala: "geez, thats not a good thing----->(memory), my girlfriend dumping me is a sad thing.

There are no neurochemicals involved in this. Depression was a more general affair:

Your subconscious releases chemicals to sustain that feeling... just like you can be consciously angry then your body automatically releases testosterone and adrenaline which makes you even angrier.

Wrong! An interaction between memory and emotional processing causes sadness. This is understood clearly.

Adrenaline doesn't directly make you angry, it isn't released when you're angry. It's released during fight or flight. Testosterone is a function of testicles/ovaries, muscles and is not released to cause a change in emotions.

What these drugs do are hamper these chemicals. They blunt out these emotions...

No! The chemical pathways that are affected by these drugs(how they do this is another issue, which I'm too lazy to bring up). The major (understood circuits) are the Dopamine, Noradrenaline, Serotonin tracts. These circuits link up the Cortex with the Basal Ganglia, creating a modulating and processing circuit.

As such, seratonin(for example) produced in the Raphe nuclei at the arse of the brain is slapped into this circuit so that certain information ("such as my girlfriend has dumped me, how sad") is 'processed' properly.

General depression is affected mainly by a deficit in these circuits. Depressed thoughts tend to stick ('bradyphrenia') in the mind.

Damage to these circuits do not necessarily cause compulsive thoughts of worthlessness and sadness to hang around (although this the common symptom in western cultures). Instead sluggishness, (an)orexia, sleep disorders, hallucinations are universal to all depressions caused by chemical deficits. (Western cultures tend to have patients who hate themselves, Eastern tend to 'just' have the sluggishness). Asher, I'm sure you already understand the 'hollow' feeling you get when you're depressed... It feels like an alien body is controlling your basic mental systems..

An increase in neurochemicals caused by taking these treatments does have side effects, but it does get rid of universal symptoms of depression (when they work) and actually get rid of the unnatural 'hollow' and 'detached' effects synonymous with a lack of emotion.

it's ****ed up to think how many depressed people are drugged up by the ****ing psyciatrists who don't give a damn about solving the REAL source problems.

The only drugs that have a sedative (side)effect are the anti-psychotics, which are different story.

'The REAL source' of depression is not understood properly, but rates of depression are identical in every culture across the world, so it is not due to a lack of faith, even if in the West, feelings of worthlessness are more common.


I think I've killed this thread any hows. Let me know if you don't understand anything/want to know more.

[General Ludd]

I agree with you, Albert

It's overblown.

Depression is not a disease, it's a part of life.

[Asher]

Depression is not a disease, it's a part of life.

Do you base this on your extensive knowledge of psychology (even though virtually every psychologist/psychiatrist would disagree with you completely), or on your universal experience with every person's conditions in the world?

The answer is neither. Just because you or people you know only get depressed when life isn't going the way you want it to doesn't mean it's the same for other people.

Your attitude is sickening.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher
So is cancer, then.

Ok, so "a part of life" is pretty broad.


Cancer isn't a mandatory part of life, nor is it something that happens to everyone, or a part of being human - depression is.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Osweld
Ok, so "a part of life" is pretty broad.


Cancer isn't a mandatory part of life, nor is it something that happens to everyone, or a part of being human - depression is.

I edited because I knew you'd go there, but personally I know more people who have been diagnosed with cancer than depression...so...
It also kills more people, doesn't it?

[Apocalypse]

NIMH...weird.

I agree with Speer that the chemical inbalance thing is overused. Though I would at first probably be grouped with the people he attacked him his first post (though I'm not rich). It was a little more complex than bad parents though.

Anyway, if a few things had just been different I don't think I would have had a problem at all. It is just that when I was grounded from everything and after learning that my parents only had me for a status symbol, I didn't feel like it was worth it to go on. If I wasn't grounded there wouldn't have been much of a problem.

[Asher]

The problem here, Osweld, is you seen incapable of distinguishing between regular depression ("feeling down"), and disorders like bipolar or dysthymic, etc.

Just regular "depression" is very much a part of everyone's life at one point or another, but very few people ever have to deal with being bipolar and dysthymic. It's actually particularly insulting how you worded your comment.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher

Do you base this on your extensive knowledge of psychology (even though virtually every psychologist/psychiatrist would disagree with you completely), or on your universal experience with every person's conditions in the world?

I base it on my own experiences, what else is there to base it on? Hypothesis and theory? I have a brain of my own, and as far as I am cocnerned, I am as qualified as anyone to talk about how it works.

The answer is neither. Just because you or people you know only get depressed when life isn't going the way you want it to doesn't mean it's the same for other people.

I have been diagnosed as having crhonic depression, and I think that I'd fit the description of manic deppresive, aswell. I'm sure there are some people who really do have an abnormal problems with depression, but I think that it's much more rare then what is actually prescribed - much like ADD.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
why did we have no such problems for centuries?

I believe we have a new candidate for bald assertion man.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Osweld
I base it on my own experiences, what else is there to base it on? Hypothesis and theory? I have a brain of my own, and as far as I am cocnerned, I am as qualified as anyone to talk about how it works.

Well, studies of tens of thousands of people and clinical results of millions of people would disagree with your assessment.

Perhaps you're right and everyone else is wrong, though. Perhaps you know more about the human mind than all those psychologists.

Human minds don't all work the same, you seem to think they do. Just because you've got a brain and know how yours work doesn't mean ANYTHING for how other people's brains works. Likewise, using my own personal experience, I can safely say everyone is actually left-handed.

I have been diagnosed as having crhonic depression, and I think that I'd fit the description of manic deppresive, aswell. I'm sure there are some people who really do have an abnormal problems with depression, but I think that it's much more rare then what is actually prescribed - much like ADD.

ADD is misdiagnosed a lot because parents want their kids to be less hyper and pay more attention in class. That's ENTIRELY different than depression.

In fact, depression is generally accepted to be underdiagnosed because lots of the people who need help don't want help because of the stigma of being on stuff like Prozac, and they're told it's just a phase...

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher

ADD is misdiagnosed a lot because parents want their kids to be less hyper and pay more attention in class. That's ENTIRELY different than depression.

And I suppose that someone who is depressed would never want to have a scapegoat, an excuse, or just some way of geting comfort and support?

In fact, depression is generally accepted to be underdiagnosed because lots of the people who need help don't want help because of the stigma of being on stuff like Prozac, and they're told it's just a phase...

Yeah, it's under diagnosed because virtually everyone one the planet can be diagnosed with it.

Well, studies of tens of thousands of people and clinical results of millions of people would disagree with your assessment.

Perhaps you're right and everyone else is wrong, though. Perhaps you know more about the human mind than all those psychologists.

Human minds don't all work the same, you seem to think they do. Just because you've got a brain and know how yours work doesn't mean ANYTHING for how other people's brains works. Likewise, using my own personal experience, I can safely say everyone is actually left-handed.

I'm not trying to say that everyone thinks or feels the same way as me, and I'm not trying to say that I know how people think or feel - I'm telling you what I think and feel, based on my own thoughts and experiences. And, since that I have been diagnosed with clincal depression, and fit the discription of manic deppresive, am I not qualified to talk on the subject?

I wouldn't value a phsycologist's opinion anymore then I would anyone elses, for the same reasons you give above - no one can know how other people think, and they really only have their own experiences to go by.

[Lincoln]

Drugs should be the last resort not the first option like they have become for many lazy therapists. We are living in an age when all problems are now solved with a new pill. Really now, everyone does not have a chemical imbalance. For those who do then take your meds. There is no reason to despise people who treat depression without the use of drugs. To each his own.