Ok. The U.S. Judicial System Sucks. I Admit It.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Um, not talking convicted. Talking using ill-gotten gains to make bail.

Let's use a drug dealer as a comparison.
The house, the car, the boat, whatever, would be siezed.
All bank accounts frozen.

What makes this guy different?

The CFO. The guy who watches the money.
If anyone has an ethical duty to watch what's happening, it's this guy.

I certainly agree that Fastow should be severly punished if proven guilty. I depise the sort of corporate piracy that has been at the focal point of the news. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Fastow was paid a significant salary. It is reasonable to assume he might be able to make the bail from that source. There is no indication that he embezeled funds. Therefore you must prove the case and sentence him on that.

In the case of the drug dealer, yes, drugs and assets that can reasonably be thought to be connected to be a part of the business of drug dealing can be frozen. This would not prevent the accused drug dealer from making bail if he had a source of legitimate income that could reasonably be expected to support the level of bail required.

[SlowwHand]

Not talking embezzlement either, Jimmy.
Talking about lying, no ethics, and costing people their savings and retirement.

[Capt Dizle]

For which punishment should be harsh Slow, after conviction. But there are no grounds to deny bail unless there is evidence that the funds used to pay that bail were obtained as a direct result of a crime. Funds Fastow received as salary cannot be assumed to be such.

[SlowwHand]

Ok. He has more rights than the people he and his running buddies bilked.
It's already known Enron screwed the people AND their pooch.

I understand now.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ok. He has more rights than the people he and his running buddies bilked.

If they want thier money back, they can bring a civil tort against him.

[Ming]

Hey slow... that's just the way things are. He is indeed innocent until proven quilty. There is no reason to deny a person bail unless they are considered a flight risk or a danger to society. As far as his money goes, while you may not like it, he was a rich man before he took the job, and it's impossible AT THIS TIME to prove that his current total net worth is solely based on "alleged" illegal activites.

If and when he is proven guilty... then he will get what he deserves.

[Roland]

Will he go to real jail, or the country club jail ?

[DinoDoc]

White collar criminals go to country club prison (minimum security).

[SlowwHand]

Whatever.
The point was already made that the starving food thief would stay in jail, and they would.
Meanwhile, Mr. Screwtheemployee walks, using their money.
That isn't right, I don't care what rationale you use.
The people he stole from, that's right, stole from, paid this guy's bail.
Nope. Nothing wrong with this picture.

[Capt Dizle]

I hope Ming is right. But I am afraid he will get a relatively light sentence. I would support much harsher sentences than one normally sees in this sort of thing.

But irregardless of our outrage we should support the process of law. Capricious though it often seems.

[Roland]

Well the solution to that one might be to bring equal rights to the food thief, rather than take them away from the white collar criminal.

[SlowwHand]

I knew a manufacturing buyer who was canned for taking little gifts from vendors. I mean little nothings of any consequence.

A damned CFO has less ethical responsibilites than some old woman trying to make it to retirement?
That's crap; and to even think for a second this bozo didn't know what was going on, is crap too.

[Ming]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
The people he stole from, that's right, stole from, paid this guy's bail.

Again... he was a VERY RICH man BEFORE he took the job. And until he is proven GUILTY, you can't say he stole the money...

Like it or not, that's the system. And I'm damn glad that I live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty!

[Roland]

If you can afford a decent defense lawyer.

[Capt Dizle]

I watched Fastow's attorney making a statement in which he claimed that Fastow was hired specifically to make the sort of deals that have come to light. He claims that the entire board and Kenneth Lay defined Fastow's job explictly as the process of manufacturing false profits to inflate the stock price. It seems likely that their strategy is to make a deal with the government that would lead to the prosecution of the whole rotten barrel. It will be interesting to see how that will play out.