Holy ****: 33 pounds of weapons-grade Uranium discovered by Turkish police

[KrazyHorse]

Gatekeeper, here's what you have to do:

Every time a government does something, assume there's a hidden reason; one that will increase their power and chances for reelection. Hunt for that reason until you find one. If it won't get you locked away for being a conspiracy nut, publish it.

[Gatekeeper]

**commits Frogger's wisdom to paper** Yes, yes! You're a great Paranoia 101 prof!

Gatekeeper

(P.S. More seriously, that kind of "always dig deeper" school of thought *is* taught in the journalism schools, along with a fanatical approach to keeping articles balanced. But, folks being folks, will do as they please sometimes.)

[MichaeltheGreat]

Frogger - LMAO, but I don't quite count Zylka when not on his meds.

Gatekeeper - I wouldn't go quite that far, but...

There's a few interesting things going on, IMO.

In the present atmosphere, you can't make even legit criticisms of the administration without being branded as doing anything from politicizing the "war" or better yet, "the safety of the American people", to being outright unpatriotic.

The present crew in the national security apparatus doesn't compare at all well to Bush Sr.'s or Reagan's bunch. So far, I haven't seen anything redeeming about Rice, (especially compared to Scowcroft) Powell / Baker is a tossup, although Powell's not in the inner circle like Baker was.

Myers as Chairman of the JCS is out of his element - he's an ex-fighter jock, and an Air Defense Command / Space Command guy, perfect for missile defense, no experience in ground combat at all. Powell was a political general, but he was also an infantryman, and former NSA under Reagan. Service chiefs are more or less out of the advisory loop, unless brought in by the SecDef or Chairman of JCS. Back in Gulf I, we had Carl Vuono, a solid combat soldier with both combat and political commands, who went up the promotion ladder the old fashioned way. Now, we have Eric Shinseki, a political favorite of Clinton, who went from being a two-star division commander to a four-star awaiting his slot as Chief of Staff in only a couple of years. He's young, looking at a chance to replace Myers when Myers retires, and Shinseki isn't a boatrocker.

Tommy Franks is probably as capable a theater commander as Schwarzkopf, but he's got some problems - he's an old style no **** soldier in an era of managers, and he doesn't speak the same language as Myers - grunts just don't talk to airedales and vice-versa. Franks and Shinseki are not likely to be a very communicative combo, they've never had any real working relationship, and theater commanders never deal much with individual service chiefs.

The real kicker here is that Bush can't go thump Saddam's ass, *and* maintain an occupying force in Iraq, *and* keep troops indefinitely committed in Afghanistan, *and* keep up the tempo of SOCOM operations in Somalia, east Africa, the Philipines, and elsewhere. And then be ready for the next threat...

The Army and Marines just aren't big enough to be everywhere they might be sent for as long as they're needed, without stretching things dangerously thin somewhere. A good measure of thanks to Clinton for that, but blaming Clinton is so passé, and the failures on the logistics side go back to Reagan and Bush Sr. as well.

The defense budget has already been increased, but the grand pet prize of missile defense can't be sacrificed (still more money to be spent), so if anyone starts talking about unsexy things like reopening bases we just closed, and spinning up four or five new divisions, (lots more money, and years before they're ready) they're likely to be locked up in a looney bin, but that's what it would take at a minimum to accomplish Bush's statement (I wouldn't glorify it as "doctrine" since there's not yet any means to carry it out ) that the US will act preemptively all over the world.

IMO, Bush doesn't really want war - getting Saddam to back down would be the prize, (especially before the election), but improving control of the Congress would do nicely, too. Lose it, and Bush is screwed, gain it, and he has time to try to figure out some semblance of a real plan for Iraq. It's not a question of kicking the IRG's ass and winning the war, it's a question of WTF do you do with the place afterwards, and how much of a manpower drain does that impose there?

That's why I think Bush just wants to fight a war of words until November, with his proxies being the hardasses, and Bush coming out as the voice of statesmanship, blah blah - remember Agnew and the "new" Nixon? We just have a bunch of bit players taking the role of the big bad Greek.

[Ethelred]

Latest news 33 pounds has somehow gone on serious diet.

Try 5 OUNCES.

Link to Reuters article

http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=3OY1BI5MHSIZECRBAEKSFFA?type=topnews&StoryID=1510453

Sample

DIYARBAKIR (Reuters) - A Turkish police official said on Sunday the amount of uranium recently seized by officers was around 5 ounces and did not weigh 33 lbs as initially reported.

[Jon Miller]

more beleivable

but shows the lack of knowledge that Turkey has

Jon Miller

[Ethelred]

I think it was more a matter of the police involved simply weighing the package, something is probably routine. Opening the thing isn't something any but the most foolish cop would do, I hope.

I think the reporting was lacking as well. Didn't anyone think to ask some simple questions. Like how much does the whole thing weigh and why did someone say Eastern Europe for a source when the labeling said West Germany. In English at that.

I took another look at the article. The suspects have been released pending trial. Such desperadoes.

Dilek also said police charged the two men in connection with the case but released them pending trial.

"These people said they believe that what was given to them was medical material," he said, adding police were now looking for two other suspects.

[Winston]

How much is 5 ounces? About 150 grams?

[Ethelred]

The metric mass is also mentioned in the article that I linked to, it says 100 grams towards to end, but thats less than 5 ounces. Kind of odd how European news agency like Reuters lead off with ounces instead of metric weights.

[Giancarlo]

5 ounces? That is it? I knew something was messed with that article saying 33 pounds. Tells you something about poorly credible news station. I think the Turkish police knew what tehy were doing. They just didn't tell the story straight to the media.

[chequita guevara]

Black Dragon, 20%-25% of the Turkish population is Kurdish (according to the government, Mountain Turks). They have been part of the Turkish and Ottoman states for a long time, so the fact that there are numbers of Kurds in the Western industrialized cities is neither surprising nor eveidence that Turkey was not oppressing them. Up until a few years ago, the Kurdish language was outlawed, Kurds were not allowed to use their own names, but were assigned Turkish names (this may still be the case).

In the past two decades some, 25,000 Kurds have been killed by the governmet, 2,000 villages destroyed, toture and extrajudical executions is widespread in the Kurdish areas, there is massive forced relocation, and so on. The guerilla war was a response to the condistions under which the Kurdish people were forced to live, and the government responded by punishing the people (much like Israel punishes the Palestinian people for the actions of a few).

[Giancarlo]

Chegitz, I am shocked you even say that Israel punishes the Palestinian people. The Israelis have a right to defend themselves from the Palestinian terrorism. Just like Turkey does against Kurd terrorists. BTW your "facts" are misleading at best.

[GePap]

MtG:
great post about W's security team: well opinionated and informative.
I also agree that Bush is milking the situation for political capitol: He says the dems don't care about national security, and when the dems go ballistic, rightly, the republican say that they are politicizing the war!

I do disagree though on your call on the war: Bush wants war, he wants it badly, he wants it now. You can just feel how badly he wants this when he talks about Saddam's attept at his dad. I agree that the Army can't just do it all, which is why i think either all those SOCOM operations are just for press show, or, more likely, the admin. will do a halfass job in Iraq post Saddam, which is why they don't approach that subject at all: The most i have heard is that they want a democratic Iraq- they never stop to outline how they will do it. Just recently, Rummie says that it would be best if Udday didn't follow daddy... Not sh1t sherlock! Why does this statement even have to be made?

Ohh, and again, not surprised to see the amounts of the material drop sharply: Just simple press hysteria, and an overeager report to boost a policy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Fez
Chegitz, I am shocked

And I give a ****? You are an amusement, but your opinion carries no weight with me.

But to play along with your little game, what do you call it when the Israelis bomb a building full of sleeping people just to kill one man out of the dozens of people there. Fourteen people, including nine children died in that attack. That is collective punishment. The entire Palestinian people are punished for the actions of a few. Evil twerps like you think nothing of the innocent.

[Giancarlo]

Uh huh. That is called terrorists using civilian shields.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Fez
Uh huh. That is called terrorists using civilian shields.

I guess it doesn't matter to you that most of those nine were sleeping at home, in their bedrooms, in their own houses, since you have such as good definition of human shield: wait, no, you are Fez: you have no good definition for anything, you can't ever provide a rational, or even a rationalistic sounding, argument for any of your opinions.... should have remebered that.