US Conservatives Concerned...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ned
PC is a form of fascism. It is very alive and well in universities today.

Among weak minds...

But is not PC now just a label for the things we disagree with in some cases?

I agree to an extent with your observation. I sat on several committees while I was in University (they had a quaint practice of including students). What I observed is that it only took one voice to say 'no' and the rest would rally.

[Capt Dizle]

Probably been listening to Rush talk about the feminazis.

[Sardaukar]

So go to Bob Jones, whiner boy. You voluntarily attend a university with multicultural requirements. The choice is yours, shut up and stop being a whiner-boy or go someplaces else. It's your money after all. You agreed to go there, knowing they had requirements. You agreed to take the classes. It's too bad that they challenge your conservative indoctrination with history about someone besides you.

this is a classic example of a liberal who can do nothing more than offer up an ad hom attack as any form of counter-argument for what im talking about. I have done nothing more than challenge the status quo, and this is the best you can offer up as a substantive argument. weak. I think i've made valid points that the purpose of a liberal arts education is not to provide politicized, sanitized views that are immune to skepticism and debate. Your logic dictates that, therefore, I must be some backwoods hillbilly who is suited for nothing more than a fundamentalist uni.

You are going to have to explain that one... I don't think so

I 'll give two examples

exhibit 1 - ward connerly, an african-american, anti-affirmative action speaker was asked to speak at our university. Despite the fact that the session was supposed to be a speech followed by a question and answer session, the PC militant AA activists jeered and harassed connelly throughout the speech to the point that he was driven off the stage halfway into the speech and had to be police escorted from the premises. Pc fascism in action.

exhibit 2 - during "coming out week", the gay groups wanted to hoist a rainbow flag under the US flag on the large main flagpole. coming out week is a good and fine thing. no problems there. But why hoist a symbol of the movement on a flagpole that is reserved for the greatest symbol of our sovereign nation. Nevermind that a vigorous debate on the subject was completely ignored. The flag went up anyway cuz i guess people were too afraid that feelings might be hurt, and it just seemed like the right thing to do.

[Kropotkin]

Maybe the problems isn't really the cources but the students that dominates. I've met people that have studied economics at schools with many students that have a neoclassical point of view. It's pretty much the same thing there, just the other way around. Groupthink and all that.

I still stand for the point of view that no student at the university level (who are more or less adult) should be forced to read any cources that' not obviously needed for the degree (ie doctors do have to read anatomy). This besides if the cources can be portrayed as 'political' or not.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ming


You are going to have to explain that one... I don't think so

Liberalism encourages dissent and alternative viewpoints. Fascism is the opposite. It represses dissent and non uniform thinking.

Now consider PC. Also consider that on Universities, it is enforced.

[Sava]

PC is being polite Neddy boy... uniform thinking isn't all bad... if humans had a uniform belief that murder is wrong that would be good. But we don't.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Ned
Fascism is the opposite. It represses dissent and non uniform thinking.

That is a broad sweeping generalization that anything that leads to uniform thinking is Fascism... And not correct.

[Sardaukar]

Maybe the problems isn't really the cources but the students that dominates.

But the profs and admin support it if it suits there political fancy. they even support forms of civil disobedience and sit-ins if the cause is the right one. If its not, you can fully expect to be assaulted and prosecuted to fullest extent of the law

[Kropotkin]

To bad about that. I wold have cracked down on those pinko middleclass brats with their abundance anxiety so that they wished that they had never left their moms back in safe suburbia. But that might also be a reason why I shouldn't really be given to much control.........

[Ned]

In the sense I mean it, I believe PC is the complete intolerance of the left not just for different points of view, but even for discussion of different points of view. This intolerance in practice is like Communism. Communism in theory is benign and leads to equality. In actual practice, it has lead only to repression of free speech and totalitarianism.

PC may seem to be benign, but its practice in American universities is not.

I think the concern of the WSJ, among other things, is the lack of political diversity in academia. Political diversity is almost by definition “good.� It sparks vigorous debates out of which truth may emerge. But what we see in American universities today is uniformity of political views and absence of discussion of fundamental issues. This is not academic freedom. It is its antithesis.

In contrast, the members of this forum have all kinds of political views, from extreme right wing to extreme left wing. The debate is almost always interesting and informative.

What American universities need to do is actively promote political diversity in their ranks.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Liberalism encourages dissent and alternative viewpoints. Fascism is the opposite. It represses dissent and non uniform thinking.

Liberalism encourages dissent and alternative viewpoints. Conservatism is the opposite. It represses dissent and non uniform thinking.

I'd like people here to actually point out examples of PC oppression that happened to them.

I'll point out a few of mine. As an openly communist student at DePaul university, I was fired from the student newspaper because I allowed any students to say what they wanted in the Op/Ed section. I nearly lost my job when I complained about the changing of the school mascott without any input from the student body. I was fired when I allowed a student to complain about professors treating her as if she was inferior.

I was consistently given trouble by the registrar's office. I had to fight to stay in school, even though my grades were good enough to stay.

One professor criticized everything I said and gave me an "F" on every paper. Another professor (in an Economics of Socialism class), consistantly gave me crap when I disagreed with him, even though I was a socialist and he wasn't (when he talked about the ideas of socialism).

In general, (but not always), conservative teachers gave me a much harder time and did not accept my alternative point of views.

The most popular teacher in the History department, a communist, was denied tenure after the whole department (except the three conservatives) said he should get it. Tenure is generally a rubber stamp, but the conservative dean refused to give him tenure. The comment that stuck out most was that labor history was a very narrow subject (from a man who's speciality was Portugese colonial Africa).

I heard conservative students compain, yes. They complained, like Sardaukar does here, that they were exposed to view points that differed from their own. But none of them were ever complain that they weren't getting the grades they deserved.

[GePap]

Great Post Che!

I have neve gotten the conservative obsecion with PC- I don't think any conservative would like to be constantly called a fascist, racist Nazi. hey would say such chracterizations are wrong: Then thet decry the fact that certain group, just like themselves, do not want to be labelled in ways they find offensive, like native Americans. If many of them don't want to be called Indians, then why should they be?

How many conservatives would lik it if i made a sportsteam, then made a charicature head of someone, made them wear a crucifix, and called the team the Stormtroopers? Yeah, you would not hear any comlaints, since all conservatives so deeply believe in free speech........

But the profs and admin support it if it suits there political fancy. they even support forms of civil disobedience and sit-ins if the cause is the right one. If its not, you can fully expect to be assaulted and prosecuted to fullest extent of the law

Can you give one example of liberal profs or liberal administrations cracking down on political protests by conservatives for conservative causes?
This reminds me of that stupid group in SC that protested because they were being asked to read a book on Islam that had somehting positive to say about the religion, while these idiots said it was the religion of the 'enemy'. That imbecile O'reily went as far as to say that it was like asking student to read Mein Kampf during WW2 and that was wrong! Is this the tye of PC repression you speak of Sardauar? Being forced to confront and digest points of view you disagree with or find offensive? So basically, what you cal for is the freedom to be ignorant of opposing view-points.... Why the hell seek a liberal education in the first place?

[Drake Tungsten]

Like someone said on the "PC" thread, political correctness is being used as a weapon by both the left and the right now. The left created it though and are still the masters of the tactic; the right is just starting to catch on to how powerful a weapon it is for suppressing dissent. I think both sides are idiots about this, but it looks like the wave of the future. Why debate a person when you can just call them a fascist and be done with the whole thing?

[chequita guevara]

"PC" in the 1950s = McCarthyism.
"PC" in the 1890s = Know-nothingism
"PC" in the 1820s = Freemasonry
"PC" in the 1780s = pro-US (tories were chased out of the country)

By and large, it is not the "left" in the US (by left, of course, we mean moderates, as the US has only occasionally had a substantive left), that has done the oppressing and the thought control in this country. Even today, despite the claims of whiner-conservatives, you are far more likely to lose your job for being a progressive than a conservative (especially if you are a leftist, the communist candidate for mayor of Miami-Dade was fired from his job last Sept. for being a commie). I have never heard of a conservative losing his job because of his politics. I have heard, and continue to hear of, people losing or being denied jobs because they are too leftist. I have heard of people being harrassed by the police because they are leftists. I have heard of people getting attacked physically because they are leftists. Yet we, supposedly, are the one's doing the oppression.

Anti-PCers need such a reality check.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
"PC" in the 1820s = Freemasonry

You aren't one of those people that believes that the Masons are an all-powerful satanic cult, are you?